buck Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 That depends on what the "conservative" is trying to conserve.Back in the day, when I was still a UK voter, it seemed that labour wanted to nationalize everything, and the tories to reprivatize everything. Simplistic of course and incredibly stupid. The conservative is not crazy about change. He sees his situation as idyllic if he has the means to make it so, and the devil take the rest. The liberal or socialist wants everybody to have everything that others have, whether they deserve it or not, and devil the cost. Somewhere betwixt the two lies the truth, but partisanship never allows that happen. To me a warm bed, a dry ceiling, and meat and two veg are the truth. If you can't afford the cabin cruiser somebody else can afford, wish them good luck, and paddle your canoe. It has a keel just like his does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 How old are you ? This is nothing new, it has not just come about under the current government, you are just becoming aware of what goes on, because of the financial crisis. Everyone is on the make, that's how businesses and politics work, the world thrives on hype and bull. Show me anyone making money without fiddling, bankers, governments, industrialists, local councils, public services, your local plumber ...... look at the people greasing each others palms, ripping each other off, overcharging and under-performing. It's dog eat dog out there, everyone is in it for themselves regardless of political flavour, how can I get more, how quick can I get it and how little can I get away with doing ..... gimme, gimme, gimme. The brown nosers and the yes men climb those ladders faster than the hardworking and honest. Get used to it, that's the way it is ! Not sure I agree with you. There was a time the government was basically honest and had the interests of the country at heart. They felt they had a public duty to set a good example. A minister would resign immediately for far less serious things than go on now. Any banker type caught with his hand in the till would retire immediately into private life and hide away in shame, and if it affected anyone else he might even commit suicide as he couldn't live with himself. Businessmen were shrewd ans some were ruthless, but out and out business criminality was left to the mafia and East End gangsters. Integrity was a word that still meant something and mattered. I think this current decline goes back to the 80's and the rise of the Yuppies, when 'Greed was good' and vast sums of money began to flow amongst a relatively small circle of people. And when you get moral decline at the top, it trickles down through society Add to that the rise of the internet which has been responsible for raising awareness in all sorts of issues, and a diminishing of God / church with the fear of hell and damnation, I think you have a recipe for where we are now. Or am I just being nieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 But privitization is a conservative theme. I thought you were against conservatism. I think Mecky was taking the piddle That said, why is privatisation a uniquely conservative theme? Some things can be done very well by the private sector. If the state can provide cost-effective services in partnership with private companies then why not? The real problem comes when the privately-provided portion of the service becomes too important in relative terms and the provision of the service is usurped for profit. In the simplistic black/white world of UK society and politics the argument has a horrible tendency to distill into private vs public provision. The truth is the best services are often going to result from taking the best from both sectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vader Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Back in the day, when I was still a UK voter, it seemed that labour wanted to nationalize everything, and the tories to reprivatize everything. Simplistic of course and incredibly stupid. The conservative is not crazy about change. He sees his situation as idyllic if he has the means to make it so, and the devil take the rest. The liberal or socialist wants everybody to have everything that others have, whether they deserve it or not, and devil the cost. Somewhere betwixt the two lies the truth, but partisanship never allows that happen. To me a warm bed, a dry ceiling, and meat and two veg are the truth. If you can't afford the cabin cruiser somebody else can afford, wish them good luck, and paddle your canoe. It has a keel just like his does. The Neoliberals we have in power now are anything but conservative. They are not happy with the status quo. For them, the poor are not poor enough, the middle classes are not poor enough and the super rich are not rich enough. They are a bunch of chancers on the make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Not sure I agree with you. There was a time the government was basically honest and had the interests of the country at heart. They felt they had a public duty to set a good example. A minister would resign immediately for far less serious things than go on now. When was that? When Oliver Cromwell was a lad? I think you are being a tad optimistic in thinking there was ever a time when politicians and businessmen acted honourably. I think if you read most resignation letters by business and politicians the only thing they are sorry about is being found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 The Neoliberals we have in power now are anything but conservative. They are not happy with the status quo. For them, the poor are not poor enough, the middle classes are not poor enough and the super rich are not rich enough. They are a bunch of chancers on the make. Insightful stuff Of course the antidote to Neoliberalism is Socialism where the government advances the common good. And worldwide Socialism has been such a success hasn't it? You wonder why every country in the world isn't up in arms demanding it. Why aren't people fleeing from the economic ruins of Europe and America and demanding political asylum in North Korea? It doesn't make sense does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Insightful stuff Of course the antidote to Neoliberalism is Socialism where the government advances the common good. And worldwide Socialism has been such a success hasn't it? You wonder why every country in the world isn't up in arms demanding it. Why aren't people fleeing from the economic ruins of Europe and America and demanding political asylum in North Korea? It doesn't make sense does it? Do you honestly believe the only alternative to Neoliberalism is Socialism? Come on Jim.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Insightful stuff Of course the antidote to Neoliberalism is Socialism where the government advances the common good. And worldwide Socialism has been such a success hasn't it? You wonder why every country in the world isn't up in arms demanding it. Why aren't people fleeing from the economic ruins of Europe and America and demanding political asylum in North Korea? It doesn't make sense does it? Actually to an extent socialism has been successful. Every advanced western economy is a mixed economy, combining elements of socialism and capitalism. What is your alternative? It just seems to be anything that isn't socialism but I've really no idea what you actually believe in so spell it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Actually to an extent socialism has been successful. Every advanced western economy is a mixed economy, combining elements of socialism and capitalism. What is your alternative? It just seems to be anything that isn't socialism but I've really no idea what you actually believe in so spell it out. I don't believe that's true because Socialism has nothing to do with a lot of things the left claims to believe in like unions and workers rights. The idea that Soviet Russia had unions going on strike is absurd. Anyone who went on strike would have been shot or sent to a gulag. I think you'll find a lot of what is claimed by the left is actually somebody else's idea. Socialism does not work and it never has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Do you honestly believe the only alternative to Neoliberalism is Socialism? Come on Jim.... The only thing that is wrong with Liberalism is the pillocks we elect to govern it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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