RAF Waddington Airshow

[cytine]

Oh Chieffe, I'm so sorry your trip to the shop was disrupted, the Airshow wasn't a secret was it? It happens every year. Surely you could plan for it. But on the bright side next year, if you let the airbase and pilots know you're listening to your car stereo I am sure they will either divert the aircraft or tone down the engine noise. Can't have you upset or your important life disrupted can we?

[Rupert_Baehr]

Let me try to answer to the best of my knowledge. In the first instance you say youi were charged admission at Mildenhall nd Germany, neither of these places is on American soil, therefore the rights of US citizens are not in place.

 

Not quite, Buck - I said that the Americans charged for admission to the show at Mildenhall and to that at Fairford. Whether the charge was described as a 'charge to attend' or as a 'charge to park' is another question.

 

(In the early 80's, parking at Mildenhall cost £5 for a car and £50 for a coach. pedestrian entry cost nothing - but since you couldn't find a parking spot within about 5 miles, it was easier to pay. - Or go by taxi .... which would probably cost you 2 or 3 times as much.)

 

My point about Americans charging other Americans to see the Space Shuttles (which were, after all, taxpayer-funded aircraft) stands.

 

The Discovery (one of those taxpayer-funded aircraft) is now on display at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, an annex of the Smithsonian Institution's National Air and Space Museum. Admission is free - but you'll have to pay $15 to park.

 

... You asked about admission to a private show if active military aircraft were taking part. They must be flown by active military personell and currently in service, not warbirds. As to who pays, I'm not sure. Pratt and Whitney in East Harford CT ran an annual show for years from their test airfield. Many of the aircraft were flown by air force or navy pilots, along with aerobatics flown by Patti Wagstaff and others. The organization was terrific and attracted up to a million people. But they cost the public nothing.

 

The New England Airshow website clarifies 'who pays what.'

 

Admission is free - but the government doesn't pay the costs of the civilian participants - that's aranged by an organisation called the Galaxy Community Council.

 

"The Galaxy Community Council is an all-volunteer 501©3 charitable corporation that supports the Great New England Air Show. It is responsible for raising funds to support the non-military participants, such as civilian aerobatic acts and vintage ‘war bird” aircraft at the air show.

The Galaxy Community Council is a private organization. It is not part of the Department of Defense or any of its components and has no governmental status."

 

If there was such a body prepared to provide funding for the civilian participants (and capable of extracting contributions from those who wanted to see the show) then no doubt entrance to the Waddington Air Show would also be free. The RAF could hardly go around with a begging bowl trying to raise funds for the (very many) non-UK mil participants, so if there was to be no admission charge, then presumably some sort of volunteer civilian organisation would have to do so.

 

Times (and the willingness of the government to pay) have changed. The 1st airshow I had anything to do with was Finningley in 1972 (as a 'worker-bee'), the last was Upper Heyford in 1991 (as a spectator.) In the intervening years I spent a fair bit of time planning and working at airshows in various capacities in the UK, Canada and half a dozen or so in the US from Loring AFB to Hickham AFB

 

In the early 70's The Royal Air Force was 3 times the size it is now and (it appeared) the government of the time felt that Air Shows provided excellent PR, were a valuable recruiting tool and were eminently worth funding. Times have changed, the RAF is much smaller, money is tight and manpower is in short supply. - I've no idea how many hours of manpower were required to plan, run and clean up after Finningley in 1972 - but there was no shortage and there obviously was sufficient funding.

 

Most of the participants were military - British or other allied - and I don't suppose there was too much haggling about 'who paid for what'. (I've no idea who footed the bill for me to go to an airshow at Hickham - it was probably the British taxpayer - but I can assure you I had a good time and I got good value for the taxpayers' money.)

 

The USAF puts on a show every year at either AFB Westover or AFB Barnes in Massachusetts. It usually includes Thunderbirds F-16s and sometimes the Navy Blue Angels. It is always free...

 

The New England airshow at Westover AFB certainly appears to be pretty good. Westover is a Reserve unit, so perhaps it's easier to throw the place open to the public for a few days.

 

There is one annual airshow in the UK which does not charge an entrance fee. The Lowestoft Airshow (which was held this year on 23/24 June) doesn't charge an admission fee - though I understand you do have to pay £10 to park - and the organisers request a 'donation' of £3 per person from spectators.

 

I've no idea how much (or how little) they managed to collect this year, but a couple of years ago it worked out at less than 50p per spectator and as a result, there was some doubt as to the future financial viability of the show. (Things did improve and they 'netted' £23,000 in 2011 - which went to local charities.)

[Harleyman]

I paid 20 dollars to get into the Planes of Fame museum air show in Chino, Calif. last May. Parking was free in a disused strawberry field next to the museum.

There is a hangar where work is underway on restoring war birds and any donations to the museum go towards restoration work. I had no problem paying an entrance fee and also donating another 50 dollars. The people who work on these planes are all unpaid volunteers and we're lucky these people are around to preserve for our and future generations these wonderful old aircraft.

[buck]

Is it widely known amongst Americans that some of their tax dollars are funding a foreign air force's show-off display team?

I don't think they care one way or another. Americans like to be entertained by the best there is, no matter where they come from. Chris told me that they were very well received on his visit. Has it come to a point where we English are becoming unwelcoming to people from other nations. It almost looks like it after reading some of the comments about the Olympic Games on this forum. If so I'm glad to be here.

[Rupert_Baehr]

I don't think they care one way or another. Americans like to be entertained by the best there is, no matter where they come from. Chris told me that they were very well received on his visit. Has it come to a point where we English are becoming unwelcoming to people from other nations. It almost looks like it after reading some of the comments about the Olympic Games on this forum. If so I'm glad to be here.

 

 

I certainly wouldn't say that, Buck. As a once or twice a year returnee to the UK, I do (I think) notice 'the changes' and some of the things I encountered in May when I returned to the UK did have 'a profound effect'()) on me. - 'Profound' enough to make me reconsider a number of things!

 

The people - the ordinary people I met whilst 'going about my lawful occasion' (other than the government jobsworths I encountered - who really annoyed me) were as pleasant and friendly as always.

 

Sheffield had a pretty good reputation for being a friendly place when I first went there (in about 1971.)

 

That hasn't changed, as far as I can see.

 

I was ripped off (to the total tune of about £1200) by a British airline and by DEFRA when I arrived in the UK in May. I should've seen it coming.

 

I was also ripped off by a National or EUROPean car rental firm. - it's not worth taking them to court. (Though obviously, I won't deal with that company again) ... I also write 'trip reports' [i do a lot of travelling.] I doubt my trip report will encourage too many people to visit the UK - and it will certainly warn some of the potential rip-offs.)

 

The UK has a (perhaps well-earned) reputation for rip-offs. - The epithet 'Treasure Island' was well-earned - but not everybody is a rip-off merchant. Sheffield (in particular) has very many establishments which seem to be more interested in giving tourists a 'good deal' than in ripping them off and it is (IMO) one of the (perhaps few?) places where tourists are treated as welcome guests, rather than as 'prey'.

 

The average resident Brit is faced by seemingly never-ending price rises. - Most of which seem to be unjustifiable.

 

Why do British products cost more in the UK than they do overseas? (Even allowing for 20% Sales tax?)

 

Is that because there are so many middle-men? - Or is it because Brits 'like to pay higher prices'? (If you live on 'Treasure Island' you shouldn't expect a 'good deal', would you? - Or should you?)

 

In another thread on this forum a poster complains about 'ordinary people' buying from the same cheap supplier which he uses.

 

Should a company, or a group of companies conspire to fix prices then they might find themselves liable to prosecution for operating a price-fixing cartel, yet this trader (and no doubt others) seem to think that the rules don't apply to them.

 

Only on Treasure Island.

 

'Caveat Emptor.'

[truman]

I think £21 per person IS too much. No concessions for over 60s either

 

You really think £21 for a full day's entertainment is over the top?

[buck]

I certainly wouldn't say that, Buck. As a once or twice a year returnee to the UK, I do (I think) notice 'the changes' and some of the things I encountered in May when I returned to the UK did have 'a profound effect'()) on me. - 'Profound' enough to make me reconsider a number of things!

 

The people - the ordinary people I met whilst 'going about my lawful occasion' (other than the government jobsworths I encountered - who really annoyed me) were as pleasant and friendly as always.

 

Sheffield had a pretty good reputation for being a friendly place when I first went there (in about 1971.)

 

That hasn't changed, as far as I can see.

 

I was ripped off (to the total tune of about £1200) by a British airline and by DEFRA when I arrived in the UK in May. I should've seen it coming.

 

I was also ripped off by a National or EUROPean car rental firm. - it's not worth taking them to court. (Though obviously, I won't deal with that company again) ... I also write 'trip reports' [i do a lot of travelling.] I doubt my trip report will encourage too many people to visit the UK - and it will certainly warn some of the potential rip-offs.)

 

The UK has a (perhaps well-earned) reputation for rip-offs. - The epithet 'Treasure Island' was well-earned - but not everybody is a rip-off merchant. Sheffield (in particular) has very many establishments which seem to be more interested in giving tourists a 'good deal' than in ripping them off and it is (IMO) one of the (perhaps few?) places where tourists are treated as welcome guests, rather than as 'prey'.

 

The average resident Brit is faced by seemingly never-ending price rises. - Most of which seem to be unjustifiable.

 

Why do British products cost more in the UK than they do overseas? (Even allowing for 20% Sales tax?)

 

Is that because there are so many middle-men? - Or is it because Brits 'like to pay higher prices'? (If you live on 'Treasure Island' you shouldn't expect a 'good deal', would you? - Or should you?)

 

In another thread on this forum a poster complains about 'ordinary people' buying from the same cheap supplier which he uses.

 

Should a company, or a group of companies conspire to fix prices then they might find themselves liable to prosecution for operating a price-fixing cartel, yet this trader (and no doubt others) seem to think that the rules don't apply to them.

 

Only on Treasure Island.

 

'Caveat Emptor.'

My visits have been much fewer than yours, though I have had yearly visits to family in Ireland until two years ago when my health stopped it. Never a problem with hospitality there.

I heartily agree with you about the friendliness of Sheffielders. I was born one. Which kind of troubles me about much of the talk on the forum. The Olympics are a classic case. Nobody seems to want them. I lived in Montreal during the 76 games, near Lake Placid for the 82 winter games, in upstate New York for the 94 football world cup. Most people I talked with said they would like the games to be permanently held in America.

Its not only the Olympics, immigrants are made to feel unwelcome, people of faith are ridiculed. These are not the Sheffielders I grew up among. Too many undergrads, and too few artisans.

[buck]

Not quite, Buck - I said that the Americans charged for admission to the show at Mildenhall and to that at Fairford. Whether the charge was described as a 'charge to attend' or as a 'charge to park' is another question.

 

(In the early 80's, parking at Mildenhall cost £5 for a car and £50 for a coach. pedestrian entry cost nothing - but since you couldn't find a parking spot within about 5 miles, it was easier to pay. - Or go by taxi .... which would probably cost you 2 or 3 times as much.)

 

My point about Americans charging other Americans to see the Space Shuttles (which were, after all, taxpayer-funded aircraft) stands.

 

The Discovery (one of those taxpayer-funded aircraft) is now on display at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, an annex of the Smithsonian Institution's National Air and Space Museum. Admission is free - but you'll have to pay $15 to park.

 

 

 

The New England Airshow website clarifies 'who pays what.'

 

Admission is free - but the government doesn't pay the costs of the civilian participants - that's aranged by an organisation called the Galaxy Community Council.

 

"The Galaxy Community Council is an all-volunteer 501©3 charitable corporation that supports the Great New England Air Show. It is responsible for raising funds to support the non-military participants, such as civilian aerobatic acts and vintage ‘war bird” aircraft at the air show.

The Galaxy Community Council is a private organization. It is not part of the Department of Defense or any of its components and has no governmental status."

 

If there was such a body prepared to provide funding for the civilian participants (and capable of extracting contributions from those who wanted to see the show) then no doubt entrance to the Waddington Air Show would also be free. The RAF could hardly go around with a begging bowl trying to raise funds for the (very many) non-UK mil participants, so if there was to be no admission charge, then presumably some sort of volunteer civilian organisation would have to do so.

 

Times (and the willingness of the government to pay) have changed. The 1st airshow I had anything to do with was Finningley in 1972 (as a 'worker-bee'), the last was Upper Heyford in 1991 (as a spectator.) In the intervening years I spent a fair bit of time planning and working at airshows in various capacities in the UK, Canada and half a dozen or so in the US from Loring AFB to Hickham AFB

 

In the early 70's The Royal Air Force was 3 times the size it is now and (it appeared) the government of the time felt that Air Shows provided excellent PR, were a valuable recruiting tool and were eminently worth funding. Times have changed, the RAF is much smaller, money is tight and manpower is in short supply. - I've no idea how many hours of manpower were required to plan, run and clean up after Finningley in 1972 - but there was no shortage and there obviously was sufficient funding.

 

Most of the participants were military - British or other allied - and I don't suppose there was too much haggling about 'who paid for what'. (I've no idea who footed the bill for me to go to an airshow at Hickham - it was probably the British taxpayer - but I can assure you I had a good time and I got good value for the taxpayers' money.)

 

 

 

The New England airshow at Westover AFB certainly appears to be pretty good. Westover is a Reserve unit, so perhaps it's easier to throw the place open to the public for a few days.

 

There is one annual airshow in the UK which does not charge an entrance fee. The Lowestoft Airshow (which was held this year on 23/24 June) doesn't charge an admission fee - though I understand you do have to pay £10 to park - and the organisers request a 'donation' of £3 per person from spectators.

 

I've no idea how much (or how little) they managed to collect this year, but a couple of years ago it worked out at less than 50p per spectator and as a result, there was some doubt as to the future financial viability of the show. (Things did improve and they 'netted' £23,000 in 2011 - which went to local charities.)

Just a couple more points. When I mentioned the P and W

shows, the airfield has massive parking, all of it free, as well as shuttle buses from as far away as 15 miles all free.

I can't remember if I had to pay admission at the Space Center or not a couple of years ago. If so it was well worth it, bearing in mind that the events there are daily throughout the year, unlike most air shows which are a once a year event.

While Westover is mainly a reserve unit, C5s go out to Afghanistan or Iraq frequently. They have a distinctive engine noise as they pass over my house at low level, somewhat like the 747s taking off from Bradley International two miles away but not quite the same. I don't have to pay when I visit the Air and Space museum in the Smithsonian as I'm a paid up member.

[Swampster]

Couple of things I wanted to add...

 

RAF Finningley At Home days.. were for a long time free admission also, it was into the early 80's when a token charge was introduced as a method of raising money for RAF Charities.

 

The Waddington Airshow, which took up the mantle after Finningely was closed became the 2 days event it is now.. and still the money raised goes to RAF Charities (as well as some local). I really don't think £21 is too much to ask considering where the money goes, if it just went back to the Treasury, I'd agree that it was wrong to charge a fee.

 

However that said, I'm pretty certain (if my memory serves) when I was last working at Nellis AFB in Nevada, they held a show that an entry fee was charged for.. although that's a few years ago, back in the 90's. I assume however it was in a similar manner to the Waddington entrance fee and was raising cash for charities.

[Grissom]

I'm going to waddington for first time this year. Want a good view for taking photos. Is it worth getting a seat in the spitfire stand ? I went to farnborough last year and paid to go in an enclosure, wasnt really worth the extra cost in the end so a bit hesitant