I1L2T3 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 yeah it is difficult for a nurse to understand that the human body needs water to survive...particularly when they keep the temperature at 29 degrees:huh: The temperature of the wards I have been on is enough to make me ill without the terrible food. Stop making nurses do degrees and make them gain practical experience and bedside manner instead! It's got nothing to do with degrees. Shall we stop doctors taking degrees as well, after all they appear to be culpable in this case too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llamatron Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 It's got nothing to do with degrees. Shall we stop doctors taking degrees as well, after all they appear to be culpable in this case too. do you actually think a doctor and a nurse are comparable? One requires in depth knowledge of a massive amount of different and unknown health problems along with the requirement that they remain up to date with recent literature. The other requires caring for people on a basic level and pratical procedures following protocols given to them along with a caring attitude. There is no reason for a nurse to do a degree they should tested based on their practical ability and bedside manner! The doctor should be telling the nurse what treatments to use, the nurse should be following the doctors advice and providing basic care such as ensuring patients can eat and do not die of dehydration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 do you actually think a doctor and a nurse are comparable? One requires in depth knowledge of a massive amount of different and unknown health problems along with the requirement that they remain up to date with recent literature. The other requires caring for people on a basic level and pratical procedures following protocols given to them along with a caring attitude. There is no reason for a nurse to do a degree they should tested based on their practical ability and bedside manner! The doctor should be telling the nurse what treatments to use, the nurse should be following the doctors advice and providing basic care such as ensuring patients can eat and do not die of dehydration. In many respects they are comparable. In modern health care, not just in the UK, many nurses have a role which extends far beyond what you describe. Education at higher level for many nurses is a good thing although perhaps there is a need to reinstate the more practical (used to be SEN) nursing education alongside. Anyway, in this case you seem to be ignoring the fact that the failures were not just from the nursing staff but from the doctors as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llamatron Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 In many respects they are comparable. In modern health care, not just in the UK, many nurses have a role which extends far beyond what you describe. Education at higher level for many nurses is a good thing although perhaps there is a need to reinstate the more practical (used to be SEN) nursing education alongside. Anyway, in this case you seem to be ignoring the fact that the failures were not just from the nursing staff but from the doctors as well. Thats kind of my point, nurses should be concentrating on basic care. It seemed to be basic care that failed here. Its not the doctors responsibility to ensure the patient gets a drink. Because the patient was having fluids regulated it was the nurses responsibility to ask a doctor about giving him more fluids. Its not like this is a one off, they have trouble feeding patients as well. This is also a nurses responsibility-in what world does a doctor need to prescribe water to ensure patients get a drink..oh yeah the wonderful world of parts of the nhs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Thats kind of my point, nurses should be concentrating on basic care. It seemed to be basic care that failed here. Its not the doctors responsibility to ensure the patient gets a drink. Because the patient was having fluids regulated it was the nurses responsibility to ask a doctor about giving him more fluids. Its not like this is a one off, they have trouble feeding patients as well. This is also a nurses responsibility-in what world does a doctor need to prescribe water to ensure patients get a drink..oh yeah the wonderful world of parts of the nhs. Please read the article again and much more carefully this time. This is not just about nurses not not giving him drinks. I know you want it to be just about that so you can have a little rant but you're wrong. Read the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llamatron Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Please read the article again and much more carefully this time. This is not just about nurses not not giving him drinks. I know you want it to be just about that so you can have a little rant but you're wrong. Read the article. read my post again, I said if fluids were being regulated the nurse should have asked a doctor about giving him a drink. My second sentence was general, this does happen too often and it comes down to neglect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 read my post again, I said if fluids were being regulated the nurse should have asked a doctor about giving him a drink. My second sentence was general, this does happen too often and it comes down to neglect. So you're still ignoring the bits about him being aggressive, being sedated, not having bloods taken, not having a drip up, doctors turning the family away, doctors not consulting with senior colleagues. This is a lot more complex than simply being about nurses not providing a drink. Read the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llamatron Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 So you're still ignoring the bits about him being aggressive, being sedated, not having bloods taken, not having a drip up, doctors turning the family away, doctors not consulting with senior colleagues. This is a lot more complex than simply being about nurses not providing a drink. Read the article. I am saying that neglect happens far too often and that a nurses primary responsibility should be food, water, toilet, prescribed medication. I have read this story from another source and none of that was mentioned. I am not saying the doctors didn't fail I am saying the nurses clearly did. There is no excuse for the tales and experiences of neglect we have from the NHS, no excuse at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I am saying that neglect happens far too often and that a nurses primary responsibility should be food, water, toilet, prescribed medication. I have read this story from another source and none of that was mentioned. I am not saying the doctors didn't fail I am saying the nurses clearly did. There is no excuse for the tales and experiences of neglect we have from the NHS, no excuse at all. Who is making excuses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 What's an 'inferior ward' Chem1st? One not as good as another to deal with the case in hand. Is it a ward where the paint is peeling off the walls? No. Is it a ward where the doctors/nurses are unqualified or incompetent? It could be. Are you suggesting that the NHS has a two-tier qualification service? - Are you suggesting that the staff on those wards with paying patients are qualified whereas those dealing with the state-funded 'hoi-polloi' don't know their arses from their elbows? No. If you are suggesting that, you can (perhaps) expect a mouthful from those who work on the NHS wards. (If you were telling the forum that I [for instance], as a worker on an NHS ward was incompetent, I might well be annoyed enough to seek redress.) I wasn't, but some are. You get good and bad everywhere. I look forward to reading your justification of your comments about 'inferior' wards. Well. Consider that a patient with problem X is admitted - do you put them in the specialised ward with deals with problem X or do you put them on a general ward? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18395318 "In most hospitals, consultants have no alternative but to move patients on to other wards where they will receive less specialised care and which often results in delays to their care. "There is strong evidence that this reduces quality of care for patients and increases their length of stay. "Boarding, in effect, creates a vicious circle, delaying treatment and discharge for patients and adding considerably to the workload of the healthcare teams caring for them." http://www.nursingtimes.net/nursing-practice/clinical-specialisms/cardiology/general-hospital-wards-worse-for-heart-patients/5024174.article People with heart failure are twice as likely to die if they are admitted to a general hospital ward rather than one specialising in cardiology, research has suggested. http://news.stv.tv/scotland/105745-moving-patients-off-specialised-wards-now-the-norm-in-scottish-hospitals/ Moving patients out of specialist wards is unacceptable and puts their health at risk, doctors have said. Transferring people into other wards, a practice known as boarding, reduces the quality of care people receive and lengthens their stay in hospital, according to the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh (RCPE). This is "now becoming the norm in Scottish hospitals". If I have a shopping list that says; bread, petfood, meat, vegetables. I will visit a bakery, pet shop, butchers and grocers. I won't try to buy bread from the pet shop, butchers or grocers. I would use the specialised shop, the bakery. You don't write a letter to the prime-minister asking to send a plumber round to change your lightbulb, for example. Wrt to hospitals - If I had injured myself and require pain relief I want some opiates. If I have an infection - I want antibiotics. Funnily enough the last time I visited a doctor I was prescribed amoxicillin, when the doctor said I had a muscular injury. I had to source some codeine on the black market. If I were to have a heart attack I would expect to be taken to hospital and put on a caridiology ward, I would not expect to be taken to the chiropodist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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