PaliRichard Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So to treat Muslims with respect we therefore have to be tolerant of their intolerance, interesting take on solving many problems. Should the Jews have been tolerant of Hitlers regime? Would this creat much more opportunity for honest, respectful dialogue? Or was they wrong for dismissing them as nasty racists? I didn't say we had to tolerate their intolerance, I said we can disagree with them but still be respectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm afraid you're incorrect. I can't put the verses up as I'm at work (and can't remember the numbers off the top of my head) but the Quran specifically says apostates will be punished by Allah in the hereafter. It also prescribes the way Muslims should treat (not punish) them while on earth. It prescribes no earthly punishment exactly for this reason. So any Muslim prescribing any earthly punishment is specifically disobaying the will of Allah. I will give you the verses when I am able. They have to die to arrive in the hereafter so that Allah can punish them, and anything that happens on earth must be the will of Allah. Anyone sending a sinner to the hereafter must therefore be doing the will of Allah. One also as to consider that one can only interpret the Quran by reading the Sunnah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 They have to die to arrive in the hereafter so that Allah can punish them, and anything that happens on earth must be the will of Allah. Anyone sending a sinner to the hereafter must therefore be doing the will of Allah[/Quote] You really are trolling now aren't you? Surely. That is entirely out of context. Allah says he will punish apostates in the hereafter (not that anyone should do it on his behalf). The Quran also states that murder will be punished in hell. It also states how non believers should be treated (and that doesn't include murdering them) So your reasoning is totally out of context. According to the Quran anyone who murders an apostate will themselves go to hell by commiting any one of the three above, never mind that they would be commiting all three. One also as to consider that one can only interpret the Quran by reading the Sunnah. That is not true either. The Sunnah and Hadith are suplimentary (how many times do I have to say this?) That means they are employed when something is not clear in the Quran to interpret the verse that is not clear. As the above mentioned is, if you take the context of the Quran instead of picking it apart to create your own meanings, exceptionally clear there is no need to apply the Sunnah. I'm taking my leave of this thread now because there only seems to be Green Web who actually wants a proper debate without trying to 'fill in the gaps' that aren't there or push their own anti religious ideals. I'm sure the Muslims are capable of defending themselves if they so wish, and I've had enough of arguing the same point over and over again to people who seem determined to create the Islam they percieve. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 You really are trolling now aren't you? Surely. That is entirely out of context. Allah says he will punish apostates in the hereafter (not that anyone should do it on his behalf). The Quran also states that murder will be punished in hell. It also states how non believers should be treated (and that doesn't include murdering them) So your reasoning is totally out of context. According to the Quran anyone who murders an apostate will themselves go to hell by commiting any one of the three above, never mind that they would be commiting all three. That is not true either. The Sunnah and Hadith are suplimentary (how many times do I have to say this?) That means they are employed when something is not clear in the Quran to interpret the verse that is not clear. As the above mentioned is, if you take the context of the Quran instead of picking it apart to create your own meanings, exceptionally clear there is no need to apply the Sunnah. I'm taking my leave of this thread now because there only seems to be Green Web who actually wants a proper debate without trying to 'fill in the gaps' that aren't there or push their own anti religious ideals. I'm sure the Muslims are capable of defending themselves if they so wish, and I've had enough of arguing the same point over and over again to people who seem determined to create the Islam they percieve. Have fun. You are looking at the religion with the eye’s of someone that doesn’t believe God (Allah) exists; you need to look at it as if God (Allah) exists, you cannot assume that God (Allah) didn’t tell a believer on earth to punish people that turn away from God (Allah). To the believer God (Allah) is real so anything that happens must be the will of God (Allah) What we know is that Muslims believe God (Allah) exists, they also believe that God (Allah) occasionally changed its mind, hence the different books that are the word of God (Allah). They believe that God (Allah) spoke to a man, so there is no reason to think God (Allah) wouldn’t speak to other men. God (Allah) is all powerful and all knowing and created everything, so if God (Allah) didn’t want someone to chop someone else’s head of, God (Allah) would prevent it, he could even have not created the man that chopped the head off the other man. But it’s more likely that because of God (Allah) power, it created one man to punish another man, knowing that the first man would deserve to be punished when he was created. You can’t assume that you a mere mortal knows the will of God (Allah) just because you read a book that was written 1400 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FazFnd Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Press tv the only news channel that tells the truth and is banned in the uk by ofcom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Prime Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Press tv the only news channel that tells the truth and is banned in the uk by ofcom Isn't that the one financed by the unelected Iranian government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FazFnd Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 That's right it is but does that make it a bad news channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Prime Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 That's right it is but does that make it a bad news channel Good question and as I haven't watched it much I can't really comment. I am a fan of George Galloway however even if I don't agree with everything he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FazFnd Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Infact I read a news regarding a massacre in Syria which bbc did Aswell and found out the bbc used a picture to tell us that the picture was of dead bodies which the Syrian army did but infact the same picture was used 7 years earlier by a French jurnalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Press tv the only news channel that tells the truth and is banned in the uk by ofcom Have VEVAK got nothing better to do than troll provincial forums in the UK? Surely you must have some disidents to round up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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