First's new money making scheme - bus drivers don't carry a change float

[Vague_Boy]

I was caught un aware of this, I was going to give him a tenner

A tenner? I know First's prices are a bit high but I think you were taking the mick a bit there, especially first thing in the morning.

[dvp82]

Do First actually have an office with staff based at the bus station or is it actually just SYPTE offices.

 

Let's say driver notices he's running out of change and arranges to pick some up while passing through town. A couple of stops later 2 numpties get on paying for small fares with £20 notes, suddenly a healthy looking float could easily be whipped out. Now would passengers be happy for the driver to say "sorry folks I'm going to have to turn round and head back into town to get some more change just incase cyclone gets on and pays with a £20 note" or does he drive on knowing he is running out of change but hopes cyclone doesn't get on and that he can manage untill he passes through town again.

 

There will always be the odd time when a driver just runs out of change through no fault of their own. Saying that if First are sending drivers out at the start of the day with little to no float then that is a poor effort on Firsts part.

[adamf]

If you get on the bus with £20 and ask for £2.90 etc you obviously need a slap for being dim!

 

OK, how about £10? When was the last time you saw a cash machine that gave out anything smaller than that?

 

The only way people can get small change before getting on the bus is by badgering nearby shopkeepers for it. So the bus company is shoving its cash-handling hassle onto other businesses.

[dvp82]

OK, how about £10? When was the last time you saw a cash machine that gave out anything smaller than that?

 

The only way people can get small change before getting on the bus is by badgering nearby shopkeepers for it. So the bus company is shoving its cash-handling hassle onto other businesses.

 

A fair few cash machines are now dishing out £5 notes and not just 10 and 20's.

 

What we really need is a smart card type of payment to be introduced, something like the Oyster system they have down in London Town.

 

With the ability to top up online or at payment points located around the city. You could top the card up with either cash and just have it as a pay as you ride system deducting a fixed flat fare per journey up to a maximum of a day saver or top up with a weekly / 28 day ticket.

 

With alot of people also having smart phones, an app could be made where you top up via the app and you scan your phone over the card reader on the bus to deduct the fare.

[steamnratbag]

I went to Birmingham – they have machines – you have the correct change great – if not, tough. People seem to find change there and there are plenty enough people on the buses too from all walks of life. The fares there aren’t much cheaper than Sheffield.

 

I think what is wrong here is that people have an unrealistic sense of absolute entitlement. They feel they are entitled to change, entitled to be able to present £20 just because they are a customer, entitled in expecting this and that because money is changing hands.

 

Wake up call – no one is entitled to anything. It’s interesting that as soon as money becomes involved people seem to feel that they are entitled to all sorts of things.

 

Just because you pay them doesn’t mean you are entitled to switch your brain off and have them do all the work and then some – that is not what business is about and if you think it is then I don’t ever want to do business with you.

 

First are a company (and I am not always their biggest fan so I don’t wade into this lightly) – this means they can run their business any way they see fit within the letter of the law – if you don’t like it use other companies or modes of transport and butt out.

 

They are providing something which you need which you pay for with your money and this gets a certain level of service but it’s a two way street, business as a whole is a two way street. They are doing the all the hard work on your behalf, making sure as best they can that they fulfil their responsibility making sure that the buses run, are safe, the drivers are competent, that you get where you want to be etc. so how hard is it for you to have the correct or near enough the correct amount of change required for a fare transaction when they have all that to contend with. They don’t have to do it and I don’t believe that most business owners are that mercenary that they go into business solely for the reason of making money. Most want to provide something for the community and get paid for doing it, even if it’s not a fortune, the being a useful contributor to society is usually the most important part of it. They don’t have to do it, if they didn’t lots of people would be in a bind so what is the problem with helping things go smoothly with a little forward planning from you, to help them help you.

Customers have responsibility too – to tender a denomination of money proportionate to the cost of the item/service they are purchasing.

Exchanging money doesn’t mean the customer can expect to do whatever they like to people who are working their backsides off to deliver a service. There is equal weight of responsibility on the customer’s part to be as helpful as possible to so as to enable the service to be smoothly delivered to them and their fellow service users. Otherwise no one would want to provide any services at all.

 

You’re right ATMS don’t give change – (although they are getting better as I’ve noticed a lot more of them are now issuing fivers like they used to when they first came out) However I use the bus all the time and always (well 99.999999% of the time) manage to have change because I plan ahead.

I get money from the cash machine when I need to go to the shop – proportionate to the amount I’m going to buy because I don’t like taking all the change from the shops either – it’s just courtesy and I don’t expect that just because someone is providing a service for me and money is changing hands that all my responsibilities as a human being go out the window. The change I get I save as I know I will be using the bus at some point in the week. So when I need to ride the bus, hey I have change. As I rely on buses to get where I need to go I prioritise using change for this and resist spending it on other stuff. If I saw a chocolate bar and had a quid to do it, rather than spending the money on chocolate which I don’t really need, I save it and save having to get more money out of the bank the next day. I don’t see what the issue is – why do people refuse to be organised? Paying for something doesn’t excuse you from being organised.

 

Sometimes people get caught out – that happens in everything and it’s a pig when it does; that’s life. Cyclone however seems to have no problem with getting on a bus and unabashedly presenting £20 for a tiny fare as a matter of course without even attempting to find change just because you think a business should give you change as you are paying them. That is just bloody mindedness and selfish behaviour. Selfish because it’s all about your rights and no one else’s, selfish because it’s taking change away from other passengers who make the effort and get on with near enough the correct fare, selfish because you’re expecting the whole bus company to completely reorganise its schedules and bus routes to go past places where they can regularly get change for all these £20 notes, making waits between buses longer, no doubt increasing fares to pay for the added admin and insurance costs, selfish because you’re expecting drivers already at risk of abuse and attack from idiots to be responsible for larger amounts in cash floats whilst out and about which would again push up insurance premiums and have a knock on effect on fares and on staff morale (I’d feel nervous walking around with everyone knowing that I had £100 in change on me, people are murdered over less) selfish because this would have repercussions on traffic flow which would affect other road users, just selfish on every level. All this because you can’t/won’t reserve three quid somewhere out of the week’s comings and goings.

 

I cannot wait for oyster type cards/phone app payment tho cos I love mi gadgets but I will continue to save change till they are available.

[NERVY-OWL]

I went to Birmingham – they have machines – you have the correct change great – if not, tough. People seem to find change there and there are plenty enough people on the buses too from all walks of life. The fares there aren’t much cheaper than Sheffield.

 

I think what is wrong here is that people have an unrealistic sense of absolute entitlement. They feel they are entitled to change, entitled to be able to present £20 just because they are a customer, entitled in expecting this and that because money is changing hands.

 

Wake up call – no one is entitled to anything. It’s interesting that as soon as money becomes involved people seem to feel that they are entitled to all sorts of things.

 

Just because you pay them doesn’t mean you are entitled to switch your brain off and have them do all the work and then some – that is not what business is about and if you think it is then I don’t ever want to do business with you.

 

First are a company (and I am not always their biggest fan so I don’t wade into this lightly) – this means they can run their business any way they see fit within the letter of the law – if you don’t like it use other companies or modes of transport and butt out.

 

They are providing something which you need which you pay for with your money and this gets a certain level of service but it’s a two way street, business as a whole is a two way street. They are doing the all the hard work on your behalf, making sure as best they can that they fulfil their responsibility making sure that the buses run, are safe, the drivers are competent, that you get where you want to be etc. so how hard is it for you to have the correct or near enough the correct amount of change required for a fare transaction when they have all that to contend with. They don’t have to do it and I don’t believe that most business owners are that mercenary that they go into business solely for the reason of making money. Most want to provide something for the community and get paid for doing it, even if it’s not a fortune, the being a useful contributor to society is usually the most important part of it. They don’t have to do it, if they didn’t lots of people would be in a bind so what is the problem with helping things go smoothly with a little forward planning from you, to help them help you.

Customers have responsibility too – to tender a denomination of money proportionate to the cost of the item/service they are purchasing.

Exchanging money doesn’t mean the customer can expect to do whatever they like to people who are working their backsides off to deliver a service. There is equal weight of responsibility on the customer’s part to be as helpful as possible to so as to enable the service to be smoothly delivered to them and their fellow service users. Otherwise no one would want to provide any services at all.

 

You’re right ATMS don’t give change – (although they are getting better as I’ve noticed a lot more of them are now issuing fivers like they used to when they first came out) However I use the bus all the time and always (well 99.999999% of the time) manage to have change because I plan ahead.

I get money from the cash machine when I need to go to the shop – proportionate to the amount I’m going to buy because I don’t like taking all the change from the shops either – it’s just courtesy and I don’t expect that just because someone is providing a service for me and money is changing hands that all my responsibilities as a human being go out the window. The change I get I save as I know I will be using the bus at some point in the week. So when I need to ride the bus, hey I have change. As I rely on buses to get where I need to go I prioritise using change for this and resist spending it on other stuff. If I saw a chocolate bar and had a quid to do it, rather than spending the money on chocolate which I don’t really need, I save it and save having to get more money out of the bank the next day. I don’t see what the issue is – why do people refuse to be organised? Paying for something doesn’t excuse you from being organised.

 

Sometimes people get caught out – that happens in everything and it’s a pig when it does; that’s life. Cyclone however seems to have no problem with getting on a bus and unabashedly presenting £20 for a tiny fare as a matter of course without even attempting to find change just because you think a business should give you change as you are paying them. That is just bloody mindedness and selfish behaviour. Selfish because it’s all about your rights and no one else’s, selfish because it’s taking change away from other passengers who make the effort and get on with near enough the correct fare, selfish because you’re expecting the whole bus company to completely reorganise its schedules and bus routes to go past places where they can regularly get change for all these £20 notes, making waits between buses longer, no doubt increasing fares to pay for the added admin and insurance costs, selfish because you’re expecting drivers already at risk of abuse and attack from idiots to be responsible for larger amounts in cash floats whilst out and about which would again push up insurance premiums and have a knock on effect on fares and on staff morale (I’d feel nervous walking around with everyone knowing that I had £100 in change on me, people are murdered over less) selfish because this would have repercussions on traffic flow which would affect other road users, just selfish on every level. All this because you can’t/won’t reserve three quid somewhere out of the week’s comings and goings.

 

I cannot wait for oyster type cards/phone app payment tho cos I love mi gadgets but I will continue to save change till they are available.

 

very well thought out. there will still be plenty that still change from £20 notes but at least theres some that attempt to get on with correct money. i hope they can bring in something similar to an oyster card as it will make life much easier. there was talk of people being able to use they're bank cards on the machines but not heard anything more on that.

[adamf]

A fair few cash machines are now dishing out £5 notes and not just 10 and 20's.

 

Yes, a very small number of them do. I think I've come across one in the past year.

 

 

What we really need is a smart card type of payment to be introduced, something like the Oyster system they have down in London Town.

 

So we have to tie money up in that system in advance, and the government and stalkers can snoop on our movements.

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/10/metropolitan_police_asks_for_tfl_data/

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/20/oyster_security_flaws/

[dvp82]

Yes, a very small number of them do. I think I've come across one in the past year.

 

 

So we have to tie money up in that system in advance, and the government and stalkers can snoop on our movements.

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/10/metropolitan_police_asks_for_tfl_data/

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/20/oyster_security_flaws/

 

And yet I've come across plenty of cash machines giving out £5 notes.

 

If your the type of person that makes frequent journeys on buses, your most likely to top up with a weekly or 28 day ticket. So that's no different to having money tied up in the current paper saver tickets.

 

There would always still be the option of paying by cash, which even in London you can still do.

 

The big difference between the bus and the underground is that you only have to touch in on the card reader when you board the bus and having a single flat fare tarrif there would be no need to touch out like you have to do on the London underground network. That makes tracking journeys a little harder as there's no way of knowing where the passenger got off the bus. Even on London buses you only have to touch in on the card reader, no touching out is required.

[Cyclone]

Do First actually have an office with staff based at the bus station or is it actually just SYPTE offices.

 

Let's say driver notices he's running out of change and arranges to pick some up while passing through town. A couple of stops later 2 numpties get on paying for small fares with £20 notes, suddenly a healthy looking float could easily be whipped out. Now would passengers be happy for the driver to say "sorry folks I'm going to have to turn round and head back into town to get some more change just incase cyclone gets on and pays with a £20 note" or does he drive on knowing he is running out of change but hopes cyclone doesn't get on and that he can manage untill he passes through town again.

 

There will always be the odd time when a driver just runs out of change through no fault of their own. Saying that if First are sending drivers out at the start of the day with little to no float then that is a poor effort on Firsts part.

 

What does a shop do if it finds it's running out of change. Does it expect customers to just leave £20 for a 50p newspaper, and claim the rest back later?

 

Is there some reason the float can't contain some notes? Most of the change for a £20, would consist of a single £10 and a single £5 note. Is that so difficult to carry around?

[Cyclone]

 

Sometimes people get caught out – that happens in everything and it’s a pig when it does; that’s life. Cyclone however seems to have no problem with getting on a bus and unabashedly presenting £20 for a tiny fare as a matter of course

If you'd actually read the thread you'd realise that I don't use the bus.

without even attempting to find change just because you think a business should give you change as you are paying them.

Finding it where? Oh, from another business, because this one can't be bothered with it.

That is just bloody mindedness and selfish behaviour.

Whereas not carrying a float is clearly not selfish in the least.

Selfish because it’s all about your rights and no one else’s, selfish because it’s taking change away

Using a note is somehow mugging other passengers now?

from other passengers who make the effort and get on with near enough the correct fare, selfish because you’re expecting the whole bus company to completely reorganise its schedules and bus routes to go past places where they can regularly get change for all these £20 notes, making waits between buses longer, no doubt increasing fares to pay for the added admin and insurance costs, selfish because you’re expecting drivers already at risk of abuse and attack from idiots to be responsible for larger amounts in cash floats whilst out and about which would again push up insurance premiums

By the end of a shift they must have several hundred quid anyway, are they constantly getting mugged for it?

and have a knock on effect on fares and on staff morale (I’d feel nervous walking around with everyone knowing that I had £100 in change on me

That's less than a full bus full. A busy route will probably have thousands on it towards the end of a shift.

people are murdered over less) selfish because this would have repercussions on traffic flow which would affect other road users, just selfish on every level. All this because you can’t/won’t reserve three quid somewhere out of the week’s comings and goings.

Reserve it out of what? Do you mean deliberately go into another shop, deplete their float and then pocket it in order to make it more convenient for first?