MrSmith Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Quite, this is such dodgy territory. It is not uncommon for women who are raped at knife point to succumb as they're in fear of their lives and the more resistance will not only inflame their rapist more but further endangers their life. Perhaps that is not really rape but undesirable sexual relations too? That is most definitely rape but the difficulty is in proving it, sex is easy to prove but rape is significantly more difficult to prove and generally relies on a jury believing the ward of the victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Quite, this is such dodgy territory. It is not uncommon for women who are raped at knife point to succumb as they're in fear of their lives and the more resistance will not only inflame their rapist more but further endangers their life. Perhaps that is not really rape but undesirable sexual relations too? If the incident involved 'at knife point' then I doubt that any jury would consider anything other than rape, but in the event that there was no weapon, a charge of 'serious sexual assault' might be easier to argue. The crime does already exist - but perhaps the charge is used too infrequently? It may well be very difficult for victims (of either sex). Perhaps they feel unable - certainly more than 'unwilling' - to report/prosecute their assailant. Rape is an heinous offence - but (IMO) unreported rape - particularly where the victim doesn't feel 'comfortable' with reporting the rape is an outrage. - I used the word 'comfortable' because I couldn't find a better word. Not feeling 'comfortable' could apply to: A spouse forced (or unreasonably induced to take part in) unwilling sex A family member abused by an older family member A partner (particularly when the partners are rather young) persuaded to have sex when (s)he doesn't really want to. Technically - and at law - all of the above constitute rape. The last case (IMO) is a 'bit dodgy' - but it could be construed as rape. The problem is that Rape - in its worst form is an absolutely heinous offence. There can be no excuse. But - to consider my last example - when 2 young (but above the age of consent) people indulge in sex and at either a late stage (or even afterwards) one of them decides it wasn't a good idea, where do you go from there? What happens when 2 mature adults (each of whom is married to somebody else) get 'carried away', have sex, enjoy it wholeheartedly ... but the next day the female has 'second thoughts'and accuses the male of rape? Should the male be convicted, then he might be liable to life in prison. Should he be able to prove his innocence (or should he judge throw the case out of court) what would happen to the female? - Would she be liable to be sentenced to life? No. She would be 'told off'. (I've seen it happen.) IMO, it's long past time that the law of England and Wales abandoned sex discrimination and that the Judges treated everybody equally. Do that and you can then start to go after the nasty barstewards. (Unless, of course, you enoble them. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 <snip>. No squeals of outrage here..in fact I read it as humour more than anything. Maybe we could call it "Unwanted artificial insemination" "man attacks woman with loaded weapon". Nah Rape is pretty self explanatory. Your post is assuming that the history of rape and pregnancy is somehow a major factor or even synonymous..it isn't, it's a contributing factor well after the attack...and the "well after" could be as early as a feeling of safety from her attacker. I'm sure women while being raped are more concerned with breathing their last breath rather than the possibility of pregnancy. What if the woman is sterile and her attacker infertile? Serious assault?, very serious assault? Not so serious as "very" but serious non the less?...gets all very murky dunt it. I would bet a lot of money pregnancy is a smokescreen for the real reason/s, being chattel, belongings, slave, property. She is mine to do as I wish not yours..and I have a piece of paper to prove it, and that paper makes it all cushty. It isn't rare to find a lover dump or run off because his 'loved one' has been defiled and he just can't quite get to grips with it. Some even stone to death a victim you know..and it's men who do the stoning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I was asked why a woman might lie about being raped, and the links answer that question, they happened this year with in a couple of months of each other so it’s more often than one might think. Another resent rape case and apparently the women was incapable of consent because she was drunk, but the man at the time didn’t think he was raping her. As I said, a woman responding to an anonymous survey does not fit into any of the above criteria, unless by some stroke of coincidence she happens to be one of a negligible amount who made a false claim that resulted in a conviction. Even if you allow for this it will not distort or overinflate the statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 That is most definitely rape but the difficulty is in proving it, sex is easy to prove but rape is significantly more difficult to prove and generally relies on a jury believing the ward of the victim. It is on the same spectrum as the scenario that skinz described: fear of the consequences. I will reiterate, this is not about proving that consent did not take place in a court of law, it is about the incidence of rape in the general population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 As I said, a woman responding to an anonymous survey does not fit into any of the above criteria, unless by some stroke of coincidence she happens to be one of a negligible amount who made a false claim that resulted in a conviction. Even if you allow for this it will not distort or overinflate the statistics. But as you have already said, you don't know who responded, why they responded, who they were, so we can have no idea if what they claim is accurate and in no way can it then be concluded that 8,000,000 women have been raped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 But as you have already said, you don't know who responded, why they responded, who they were, so we can have no idea if what they claim is accurate and in no way can it then be concluded that 8,000,000 women have been raped. I'm beginning to wonder if there are any parallels to be drawn between those who seek to downplay sexual violence against women and those who deny the holocaust. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 It is on the same spectrum as the scenario that skinz described: fear of the consequences. I will reiterate, this is not about proving that consent did not take place in a court of law, it is about the incidence of rape in the general population. I thought we were discussing your claim that 8,000,000 women have been raped, which I seriously doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 IMO, it's long past time that the law of England and Wales abandoned sex discrimination and that the Judges treated everybody equally. ) Or everyone treated everyone equally making judges redundant. We have sex discrimination laws because it exists, not because it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'm beginning to wonder if there are any parallels to be drawn between those who seek to downplay sexual violence against women and those who deny the holocaust. Interesting. Didn't you know...the holocaust never happened because my 3 Jewish friends didn't care to come running and inform me of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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