JFKvsNixon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Lying on Libor therefore ensuring the markets didnt have a pop at them, and ensuring the rates they paid out on loans were lower. Hiding funds from terrorists and drug lords and cleaning them up, so they looked legit. Stealing from pension funds. Im at a loss still at your question. Do you actually want me to pull out the actual laws on this? Suggest you chat to a solicitor. Have people gone to prison in the USA then for lying about the Libor rate and this current HSBC scandal? Wow the USA does run it's justice in a very fast manner, far too fast for our media here to report it! You have missed the point haven't you. The point that was raised by the poster was why have people gone to prison in the wake of the credit crunch banking scandal in the USA whereas they haven't here. As to your question about the current scandals in the news, lets give the authorities time to investigate it so we can hold the right people accountable rather than the usual sacrificial lambs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Have people gone to prison in the USA then for lying about the Libor rate and this current HSBC scandal? Wow the USA does run it's justice in a very fast manner, far too fast for our media here to report it! You have missed the point haven't you. The point that was raised by the poster was why have people gone to prison in the wake of the credit crunch banking scandal in the USA whereas they haven't here. As to your question about the current scandals in the news, lets give the authorities time to investigate it so we can hold the right people accountable rather than the usual sacrificial lambs. Come on, the regulators are the bankers. Why given they have had this information for neigh on 4 years will they actually do what they are paid for now? Have you heard the excuses? Laws not in place (The FT states differently as does the Labour party), one lone bankers (yeah right) or maybe 14.... The current crop of politicians/bankers/regulators will create another white wash, hence the no to a banking enquiry. People power with hopefully parts of the media on our sides will eventually create jail terms. But not in the next 12 months. The tory puppet master financiers have them firmly told to stay well clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Come on, the regulators are the bankers. Why given they have had this information for neigh on 4 years will they actually do what they are paid for now? Have you heard the excuses? Laws not in place (The FT states differently as does the Labour party), one lone bankers (yeah right) or maybe 14.... The current crop of politicians/bankers/regulators will create another white wash, hence the no to a banking enquiry. People power with hopefully parts of the media on our sides will eventually create jail terms. But not in the next 12 months. The tory puppet master financiers have them firmly told to stay well clear. I would want rather a major criminal enquiry was held. Lets move this issue away from the politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I would want rather a major criminal enquiry was held. Lets move this issue away from the politics. Id like to see a Global Financial Nuremborg... have a gander at this... http://coppolacomment.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/financial-nuremberg.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECCOnoob Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Come on, the regulators are the bankers. Why given they have had this information for neigh on 4 years will they actually do what they are paid for now? Have you heard the excuses? Laws not in place (The FT states differently as does the Labour party), one lone bankers (yeah right) or maybe 14.... The current crop of politicians/bankers/regulators will create another white wash, hence the no to a banking enquiry. People power with hopefully parts of the media on our sides will eventually create jail terms. But not in the next 12 months. The tory puppet master financiers have them firmly told to stay well clear. Well maybe if there is an actual law in place the FT should take some responsibility and report this evidence to the police. Even more should the labour party. After all, its an active political party with power and influence. Why is this not number one priority for them if they are so certain laws exist and have been broken. Why keep quiet. Why are they not publishing and broadcasting these active laws all over the media. Why are they not hounding down the culprits gathering evidence. Why are they not screaming the house down at the CPS to get investigations started if they are so certain laws have been broken. ....eh? prey tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECCOnoob Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Lying on Libor therefore ensuring the markets didnt have a pop at them, and ensuring the rates they paid out on loans were lower. *agreed - hence why its currently being investigated by both regulatory and criminal investigations * Hiding funds from terrorists and drug lords and cleaning them up, so they looked legit. - Anti Money Laundering Regulations are very very complex and breach of said regulations are again a Regularity and Discipline matter. Criminals are extremely clever at cloning monies and making dirty money into clean. All the best anti money laundering checks in the world will not stop things slipping through the system. You want a criminal trial - Prove it was being deliberate done on a regular basis by named and accountable staff members. Prove that knowledge of the laundering was fully clear to all executive staff currently being witch hunted. Gather said evidence to a point where a CPS prosecution could be drafted and evidence to a standard enough beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law. You might then have a case. Stealing from pension funds. - investments from pension providers put into your bank's investment accounts under the terms of contract signed by the pension suppliers to invest in any funds stated within the terms of agreement (albeit bad investments) is not the same as "theft". Bad decision making - maybe. Poor management of investments - maybe. Poor monitoring of funds - most likely. Guess what? NOT ILLEGAL. Regulatary Bodies responsibliity and discipline. Nothing you can do in a court of law. Im at a loss still at your question. Do you actually want me to pull out the actual laws on this? Suggest you chat to a solicitor. Clarified a couple of things for you. How many times do I have to say this. Its just not all that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Firstly, so what?? - what happens in America's judicial system has nothing to do with over here unless the Claimant, Respondent or intermediate parties are registered over there. US Judicial Law does not automatically apply here. Do you havea list of all the cross over law and regulation which can be brought within the England and Wales Justice System. Secondly, "breach of regulations" if that was the allegation does not automatically mean criminal proceedings. What is a "regulation" under a government act or professional body cannot always be tried upon under a judical or even civil proceeding. Even if they were doing something wrong it would be a matter for a government or regularity body to deal with.... not a criminal prosecution. Thirdly, do you have a specific list of what LAWS you allege they broke. Do you have a portfolio of evidence proof beyond reasonable doubt that could bring a prosecution in a court of law. Do you have a named party for each and every allegation who can personally be prosecuted in a court of law? ...... no. oh shame... never mind. We can all go into moronic pitch fork mode and ask for the head of Bob Diamond or Steven Hester but its not that simple. Finally, dont waste your keyboard bigging up Occupy. My god what a joke. :loopy: What the hell are they gonna do? Sit in a tent again? Clog up the high street getting in everyone's way? Im sure they are really scared of the unwashed gathering in small clusters outside provisional branches of said organisations having no effect whatsoever on the cause and running away hiding when it rains? Do me a favour. I really don't understand why anyone would want to defend bankers who have ruined the economy yet are still sitting pretty with their ill gotten bonuses, while the rest of us suffer. We have a global economy so if illigalities occurred in the American system, it's a pretty sure bet the same things were occurring here. Did you see the Parliamentary questioning of Bob Diamond? Absolutely pathetic! He ran rings round them, a textbook example of misdirection and prevarication. He did not answer a single question. All terribly English and polite, all chummy and first name terms. The parliamentarians were so obviously out of their depth it was embarrassing to watch. Compare that with the American version. Penetrating questions that the bankers couldn't wriggle out of, sharp, informed interrogators who knew as much as the bankers and could cross- examinie with confidence, table thumping, demanding answers and not resting until they got them - that's why the bankers went to prison in America, and why we need a proper judicial enquiry here. Have you any idea how serious manipulating Libor is? How damaging it is to economies around the world, and how damaging to our reputation? Any idea how much it's going to cost us in damages and reparations to injured parties? The legal cases are already being drawn up against us. It will probably finish off a couple of banks unless we recapitalise them yet again. And there's a good chance it will finish the UK off as the 'financial capital of the world' as no one will trust us again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsexydoug Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I really don't understand why anyone would want to defend bankers who have ruined the economy yet are still sitting pretty with their ill gotten bonuses, while the rest of us suffer. We have a global economy so if illigalities occurred in the American system, it's a pretty sure bet the same things were occurring here. Did you see the Parliamentary questioning of Bob Diamond? Absolutely pathetic! He ran rings round them, a textbook example of misdirection and prevarication. He did not answer a single question. All terribly English and polite, all chummy and first name terms. The parliamentarians were so obviously out of their depth it was embarrassing to watch. Compare that with the American version. Penetrating questions that the bankers couldn't wriggle out of, sharp, informed interrogators who knew as much as the bankers and could cross- examinie with confidence, table thumping, demanding answers and not resting until they got them - that's why the bankers went to prison in America, and why we need a proper judicial enquiry here. Have you any idea how serious manipulating Libor is? How damaging it is to economies around the world, and how damaging to our reputation? Any idea how much it's going to cost us in damages and reparations to injured parties? The legal cases are already being drawn up against us. It will probably finish off a couple of banks unless we recapitalise them yet again. And there's a good chance it will finish the UK off as the 'financial capital of the world' as no one will trust us again. there is a lot of difference between defending bankers and what you want though, i dont think that there is a person on here on this planet even that even slightly likes the bankers, but we cant just "jail them all", does brenda who works behind the counter at nat west deserve 10 years ??, yes some people are probably goin to be looking at jail in the years to come, but at the moment this thread is a witch hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I really don't understand why anyone would want to defend bankers who have ruined the economy yet are still sitting pretty with their ill gotten bonuses, while the rest of us suffer. ... Is it possible that the issue is being (to some extent) clouded by misinterpretation? I had a(n original) framed page from a Lincolnshire Newspaper published in the 18th Century which detailed the fate of a robber apprehended outside the City Walls and hanged (having been tried and convicted) in the Castle. According to the article the felon was "One of that common class of person known as Bankers or Navigators." (I took great delight in showing that article to my Nav and my Bank Manager.) When people moan about 'Bankers' what do you mean? Do you mean the guy who runs your local branch? Do you mean the Teller in your local branch? Were the banks which screwed us over (initially) the High Street Banks or were they (certain individuals working for) Merchant Banks? In the late 1980's, I was a stockbroker. When I was a 'youf', Stockbrokers were respected wealthy individuals who lived in places like Virginia Water and who had attractive daughters who succumbed to my wiles ... family channel, no names and no pack drill! When I was a stockbroker - a 'registered representative' a 'member [albeit a little one] of the New York Stock Exchange - stockbrokers were crooks who hadn't been jailed - yet. I worked for a merchant bank (though they claimed that I was a self-employed subbie, so if I went to jail, they could deny liability. I got out. - didn't want to go to jail, could see what was going to happen. Happen it did - and a number of (not very guilty) people carried the can for some very senior people. I don't suppose a lot has changed. Stockbrokers (cold-calling telephone salesmen) make a living - or don't - from what they can sell. There are rules ... and they are usually ignored. 'Derivatives' - 'manufactured' 'equities'. Many millions of dollars worth of worthless debt were re-packaged by people running unscrupulous minions (who were actually only trying to make a living) and sold on to unsuspecting buyers. 'Caveat emptor' is written in Latin, because the idea has been around for a long time. - Unfortunately, greed often supersedes common sense and a number of very senior people (who certainly should've known better) bought the bad debt. Nothing new. - Think back a few years to when local councils were spending the taxpayers' money buying 'dodgy bonds' from places like Iceland (and I'm not slagging off the frozen food company.) Did those councillors go to jail? - Did they hell! - Why not? In the 80's we had 'junk bonds' - debt backed by the 'full faith and credit of bugger all.' - One or two people caught a cold, but a lot of people got rich and many got away with it. Then came ' National junk bonds' - Councils (who are not supposed to be speculators) were buying trash debt. They git away with it. Nobody went to jail. If government (albeit local government) can get away with gross misfeasance, why should the minions of the merchant banks have a 'conscience attack' ? 'Caveat Emptor' doesn't apply solely to private transactions. Why didn't the Banks and other agencies which bought the packaged 'junk debt' check what the hell they were buying before they handed over the money? By all means hang the guilty - but please identify and convict them first. (I'm not a banker -as I said earlier, I got out 20-odd years ago. I didn't make much money as a 'Merchant Banker' - but I did learn to trust nobody and to accept nothing at face value. That took me weeks, rather than months. Why did the professional bankers -many of whom had been in the game (or should that be 'on the game' ) for many years not learn that earlier? If one man in a town commits a crime, who is responsible? - I suggest the answer is: "That man" If a thousand men in a town commit the same crime, who is responsible? - Again, the criminals are personally responsible, but if that particular crime is so prevalent, shouldn't the mayor (or whoever runs the town) bear more than a little responsibility? If that mayor merely followed the laws made by the 'town elders', are those elders not responsible? Who makes the laws in the UK? Is [The Queen in] Parliament not the sovereign lawmaker? If Parliament is responsible for making the laws, then is Parliament not responsible for ensuring that the laws are enforced? Let 'the banksters' wait in line for a place in jail behind the politicians who carry the responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Who makes the laws in the UK? Is [The Queen in] Parliament not the sovereign lawmaker? If Parliament is responsible for making the laws, then is Parliament not responsible for ensuring that the laws are enforced? Let 'the banksters' wait in line for a place in jail behind the politicians who carry the responsibility. If you read the link i put above about a financial Nuremborg, it answers your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.