Jag82 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 If you are using Wackypedia, especially an unsourced article that reads more like some crackpot pet theory than a serious paper you deserve all you get. That article is perforce, utter balls. It doesnt even begin to describe how the markets work. There has been trading in futures contracts in food since the Roman times, and quite probably there was similar trading in Ancient Greece. Market speculation has been about from about five minutes after the point when two guys decided to meet on some dusty bit of land and put up a stall selling excess yams to the passing public. Selling excess yams to the public is a current contract not a 'futures' one ! Are you sure of your authority re 'The markets' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I suspect price fixing goes on everywhere and not just in the banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 So because you don't like what the article says, it's rubbish? You are basing your question on a faulty assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Once again, I know that markets have existed for thousands of years. I like them. I think we need them. I like that people make money from them. It's good. But in the past 20-30 years things have changed dramatically because of the rising dominance of the financial sector and deregulation of many markets. The point of the article linked to in the OP is that bankers may have been able to distort the market for their own gain. This may also be the case in other markets too. Markets are no longer as simple as you think. If you think it's only taken place in the last 30 years then you are very mistaken. Market manipulation has gone back milennia - Thales of Miletus was doing in 6th century BCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Selling excess yams to the public is a current contract not a 'futures' one ! Are you sure of your authority re 'The markets' Where did I claim otherwise? Where did I make any claims about yams at all? Are you sure of your authority in reading comprehension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I knew this has been going on, and that markets can be manipulated since watching Trading Places in the 1980s. I wonder what happened to Beeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 If you think it's only taken place in the last 30 years then you are very mistaken. Market manipulation has gone back milennia - Thales of Miletus was doing in 6th century BCE. I know markets have been manipulated for millenia. This is different. What I am talking about is the systematic hijack of markets by the bankers. We'll get there eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I know markets have been manipulated for millenia. This is different. What I am talking about is the systematic hijack of markets by the bankers. We'll get there eventually. I doubt it because you are not listening. Markets have operated for thousands of years with bankers or merchants acting like a bank influencing their operation. This new fiscalisation ****** that you keep banging on about is simply not a new phenomena - it has been happening for a very long time. If you want to convince people of that make an argument - and Wackypedia is not an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I thought rigging the oil price was OPEC's job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC "According to its statutes, one of the principal goals is the determination of the best means for safeguarding the organization's interests, individually and collectively. It also pursues ways and means of ensuring the stabilization of prices in international oil markets with a view to eliminating harmful and unnecessary fluctuations; giving due regard at all times to the interests of the producing nations and to the necessity of securing a steady income to the producing countries; an efficient and regular supply of petroleum to consuming nations, and a fair return on their capital to those investing in the petroleum industry." Sure sounds like price rigging to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 I doubt it because you are not listening. Markets have operated for thousands of years with bankers or merchants acting like a bank influencing their operation. This new fiscalisation ****** that you keep banging on about is simply not a new phenomena - it has been happening for a very long time. If you want to convince people of that make an argument - and Wackypedia is not an argument. I'm not saying markets haven't been manipulated. I know they have. It's not fiscalisation. It's financialisation. It's very different to what has happened before. I'm not basing my argument solely on Wikipedia either. For all its faults in this case Wikipedia does provide a pretty solid entry level overview of the subject. I've read a lot around this subject. Once you understand it it is pretty sickening when you wake up to what has happened. http://www.ccfr.org.cn/cicf2012/papers/20120525010717.pdf 'The results support the view that the trades of financial institutions play an important role in price formation in the commodities futures markets. In this sense, the commodities prices are no longer determined only by the supply and demand in the real sector. Instead, they are also affected by the financial institutions’ behavior, which reflects a fundamental process of financialization of commodities.' The normal operation of markets has been usurped by financial institutions who manipulate markets to maximise profit taking. We will get there eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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