Obelix Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm not saying markets haven't been manipulated. I know they have. It's not fiscalisation. It's financialisation. It's very different to what has happened before. I'm not basing my argument solely on Wikipedia either. For all its faults in this case Wikipedia does provide a pretty solid entry level overview of the subject. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA Seriously. You think that "article" has any foundation whatsoever? If you do then there really is no point continuing. I've read a lot around this subject. Once you understand it it is pretty sickening when you wake up to what has happened. http://www.ccfr.org.cn/cicf2012/papers/20120525010717.pdf 'The results support the view that the trades of financial institutions play an important role in price formation in the commodities futures markets. In this sense, the commodities prices are no longer determined only by the supply and demand in the real sector. Instead, they are also affected by the financial institutions’ behavior, which reflects a fundamental process of financialization of commodities.' The normal operation of markets has been usurped by financial institutions who manipulate markets to maximise profit taking. We will get there eventually. Thales of Miletus was doing just that when he was corning the olive oil market 2,600 years ago. You are failing spectacularly to prove your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 I thought rigging the oil price was OPEC's job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC "According to its statutes, one of the principal goals is the determination of the best means for safeguarding the organization's interests, individually and collectively. It also pursues ways and means of ensuring the stabilization of prices in international oil markets with a view to eliminating harmful and unnecessary fluctuations; giving due regard at all times to the interests of the producing nations and to the necessity of securing a steady income to the producing countries; an efficient and regular supply of petroleum to consuming nations, and a fair return on their capital to those investing in the petroleum industry." Sure sounds like price rigging to me. They sure play their part. But once you have fed through all the pre-existing distortions in the market there is still room for further manipulation by the banks. Again, back to the link in the OP. It is not saying that there is no pre-existing rigging or manipulation. It is saying that the banks have engineered themselves a way to take an additional piece of the pie as well. In other words they have found a way to make sure you get shafted even more at the petrol pump. But hey, if you're happy you're already getting shafted you won't mind somebody else joining in too I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA Seriously. You think that "article" has any foundation whatsoever? If you do then there really is no point continuing. Thales of Miletus was doing just that when he was corning the olive oil market 2,600 years ago. You are failing spectacularly to prove your point. I think it's a pretty good article by Wikipedia standards, yes. The Thales example is not an example of financialisation. It is not comparable to what is happening to markets today. It was not a mal-allocation of economic resources. It was canny business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 They sure play their part. But once you have fed through all the pre-existing distortions in the market there is still room for further manipulation by the banks. Again, back to the link in the OP. It is not saying that there is no pre-existing rigging or manipulation. It is saying that the banks have engineered themselves a way to take an additional piece of the pie as well. In other words they have found a way to make sure you get shafted even more at the petrol pump. But hey, if you're happy you're already getting shafted you won't mind somebody else joining in too I guess. I tend to buy my petrol from oil companies like Shell who buy the oil, refine it and sell it. Where do the banks come into the equation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I tend to buy my petrol from oil companies like Shell who buy the oil, refine it and sell it. Where do the banks come into the equation? You have to remember it's all the financialization that does it though. I'm just waiting for the Illuminati and Bilderberg to appear as well - they usually appear about this point. They have fingers in everything remember :hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 I tend to buy my petrol from oil companies like Shell who buy the oil, refine it and sell it. Where do the banks come into the equation? From the article linked in the OP: 'Traders from banks, oil companies or hedge funds have an “incentive” to distort the market and are likely to try to report false prices, it said.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I think it's a pretty good article by Wikipedia standards, yes. The Thales example is not an example of financialisation. It is not comparable to what is happening to markets today. It was not a mal-allocation of economic resources. It was canny business. In which case you take an F for Fail which is what most people will get for considering such an "article" as being reasonable. You still havent understood the relevancy of Thales either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 You have to remember it's all the financialization that does it though. I'm just waiting for the Illuminati and Bilderberg to appear as well - they usually appear about this point. They have fingers in everything remember :hihi: eh? You just brought them into it. Like you brought the Soviets and Chinese communists into it too. Take a chill pill dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 eh? You just brought them into it. Like you brought the Soviets and Chinese communists into it too. Take a chill pill dude. Your sarcasm detector appears to be broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 In which case you take an F for Fail which is what most people will get for considering such an "article" as being reasonable. You still havent understood the relevancy of Thales either. It's entirely reasonable. Would you like to explain what is not reasonable about it? Thales is not an example of financialisation. It's an example of creating a short-lived monopoly. Entirely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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