MrSmith Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 But if this theory has any credibility then why would porn not be used as part of the treatment process? Perhaps all prisoners should have access to it, it may prevent male on male rape too? Looking at paedophilia, A paedophile cannot be cured because it’s not a disease, it’s a sexual orientation, all you can treat them to the point where they can empathise with their potential victim, but their desired will remain. Obviously society needs to punish anyone whom succumbs to their sexual orientation and abuses a child, but it would be much better if we could find an alternative for the paedophile in which they can fulfil their sexual needs without the need to abuse a child. If excess to porn can do that and the finding suggests it can, then it must be a good thing. You can punish a rapist but I doubt you could cure one because again it’s not a disease, if porn makes a suitable substitute to rape and again the finding appear to suggest it can, then access to porn must be a good thing because it may reduce the number of rapes. Prisoners do have access to it. Prisoners are to be allowed hardcore pornography inside British jails for the first time after mounting a successful challenge based on the Human Rights Act. The decision follows a campaign by Dennis Nilsen, the serial killer jailed in 1983 for murdering six young men, to be allowed to receive explicit homosexual pornography. Nilsen, who kept the bodies of his victims for days, is expected to use the ruling to challenge previous decisions to deny him access to such material. It would be interesting to see if it reduces sexual violence in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Looking at paedophilia, A paedophile cannot be cured because it’s not a disease, it’s a sexual orientation, all you can treat them to the point where they can empathise with their potential victim, but their desired will remain. Obviously society needs to punish anyone whom succumbs to their sexual orientation and abuses a child, but it would be much better if we could find an alternative for the paedophile in which they can fulfil their sexual needs without the need to abuse a child. If excess to porn can do that and the finding suggests it can, then it must be a good thing. You can punish a rapist but I doubt you could cure one because again it’s not a disease, if porn makes a suitable substitute to rape and again the finding appear to suggest it can, then access to porn must be a good thing because it may reduce the number of rapes. Prisoners do have access to it. It would be interesting to see if it reduces sexual violence in prison. Why? you haven't proven it's reduction outside of prison yet. Under your own admission even you are back peddling on the theory. Prisoners have had access to a multitude of reading material including crime genre for many many years, it would be easier for you to find a correlation in the reduction of crime and access to that specific media, if it exists, rather than waiting around a millennia for this to produce anything. A prison environment is much more controlled and simpler to assess. Your link again is irrelevant because it's introduction has nothing to do with porn as a deterrent, but specifically to do with rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Your link again is irrelevant because it's introduction has nothing to do with porn as a deterrent, but specifically to do with rights. No one has said it’s a deterrent, but it did answer another members post making it relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 No one has said it’s a deterrent, but it did answer another members post making it relevant. Let's see if it has any effect whatsoever on recidivism. I suspect not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Let's see if it has any effect whatsoever on recidivism. I suspect not. How would watching porn in prison have an effect on recidivism? Surely they would have to watch porn when they leave prison for it to have an effect. I also suspect that anyone that has already committed a sex crime despite the availability of porn, won’t be stopped from committing further sex crime because porn is still available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 How would watching porn in prison have an effect on recidivism? Surely they would have to watch porn when they leave prison for it to have an effect. I also suspect that anyone that has already committed a sex crime despite the availability of porn, won’t be stopped from committing further sex crime because porn is still available. Are we at cross purposes? If viewing porn reduces rape then going by that argument, it would be logical to assume that it will reduce recidivism upon release as well sex crimes committed in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fake Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I was being tongue in cheek, as Ron suggested. Ah.. time for a tongue in cheek smiley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Are we at cross purposes? If viewing porn reduces rape then going by that argument, it would be logical to assume that it will reduce recidivism upon release as well sex crimes committed in prison. The evidence doesn’t suggest it reduces the amount of sex crimes committed by the individual, it suggests sex crime is reduced in the population, which would imply that porn stops some people committing sex crime, but not others. The evidence suggests viewing porn reduces rape but doesn't stop it, the people that commit rape even though they had access to porn are unlikely to be stopped from committing further rape just because they still have access to porn. Obviously in their case porn wasn’t enough. There are likely to be many people that have never committed rape and lead a normal life because they have access to porn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 There are likely to be many people that have never committed rape and lead a normal life because they have access to porn. No one has argued that, your world is safe, in fact those who use porn are normal citizens using it for fantasy purposes and that's where it stops. Rapists on the other hand do not. Rapists and porn have one thing in common, they objectify women. Just because porn objectifies women that doesn't mean all men objectify women, it just feeds the notion of a rapists mindset that already exists and is far less likely by watching it to "cure him". It's far more likely to confirm his notion and have the opposite effect. I certainly wouldn't test the theory you submitted on my children with a peadophile in the event it "may" stop him, or lock an alcoholic in a pub as an analogy. 1) Rapists objectify women and act on it. 2) Misogynists objectify women and act on it, (vocal, violent or sexually violent, or a combination) 3) Most users of porn disregarding the above, use it as a fantasy or a means of relief, have a fag and nod off. It would be easy and not out of the question personally to conclude that 25% of 1 and 2 above give or take a few percentage points account for the figures put forward, with the greater of that percentage coming from 2 above. I've used porn, I'm not a rapist. I don't see women as objects, if I did I'd probably come under no's 1 or 2 above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Quote: Originally Posted by Suffragette1 View Post I wrote this not Suffragette1 There are likely to be many people that have never committed rape and lead a normal life because they have access to porn. No one has argued that, your world is safe, in fact those who use porn are normal citizens using it for fantasy purposes and that's where it stops. Rapists on the other hand do not. Rapists and porn have one thing in common, they objectify women. Just because porn objectifies women that doesn't mean all men objectify women, it just feeds the notion of a rapists mindset that already exists and is far less likely by watching it to "cure him". It's far more likely to confirm his notion and have the opposite effect. I certainly wouldn't test the theory you submitted on my children with a peadophile in the event it "may" stop him, or lock an alcoholic in a pub as an analogy. 1) Rapists objectify women and act on it. 2) Misogynists objectify women and act on it, (vocal, violent or sexually violent, or a combination) 3) Most users of porn disregarding the above, use it as a fantasy or a means of relief, have a fag and nod off. It would be easy and not out of the question personally to conclude that 25% of 1 and 2 above give or take a few percentage points account for the figures put forward, with the greater of that percentage coming from 2 above. I've used porn, I'm not a rapist. I don't see women as objects, if I did I'd probably come under no's 1 or 2 above. You’ve consistently managed to misinterpret this topic and now you have demonstrated your inability to use the quote function. But at least you now accept that access to porn does prevent some people committing sex crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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