Light sonic Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 It's incredible. What's going to happen when there aren't enough graduates and the entire UK economy in ran into the ground, unless the cuts make the economy even worse first? It's just like it always is under the tories. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18984938 It was the the last Labour government that introduced tuition fee's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frededwards Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 and the alternative is? It is cheaper to "encourage" the kids to go into FE than it is to pay them JSA. Encourage them to trained as a skilled tradesman via a proper apprenticeship. There is a drastic shortage of skilled workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottedplant Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Encourage them to trained as a skilled tradesman via a proper apprenticeship. There is a drastic shortage of skilled workers. That works for me. And at £2.60 an hour not much more costly than JSA. I do think that some of the vocational degrees - teaching etc - ought really to be on the job training ........but it all comes down to money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 and the alternative is? It is cheaper to "encourage" the kids to go into FE than it is to pay them JSA. Well you’ve hit the nail on the head haven’t you; universities shouldn’t be dumping grounds for the unemployed. They should be free to the brightest 10% but only in the subjects that will help the UK and a contract to work in the UK for at least ten years, everyone else should pay, or get a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Encourage them to trained as a skilled tradesman via a proper apprenticeship. There is a drastic shortage of skilled workers. Agreed. But where are you going to get the proper apprenticeships? How are you going to persuade apprentices to stay on the apprenticeship until they are qualified? Who is going to monitor the standards of the qualification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 That works for me. And at £2.60 an hour not much more costly than JSA. I do think that some of the vocational degrees - teaching etc - ought really to be on the job training ........but it all comes down to money. Are there many takers at £2.60 an hour..surely on Sheffield Forum there'd be cries of "I'm being ripped off" or "Forced to work for slave wages" (yes I know ) etc etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottedplant Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Agreed. But where are you going to get the proper apprenticeships? How are you going to persuade apprentices to stay on the apprenticeship until they are qualified? Who is going to monitor the standards of the qualification? this may give you some answers: http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Another tool. It was the the last Labour government that introduced tuition fee's. Let me guess, you have another alias? It's probable that the Tories planned to introduce tuition fees when they converted the polytechnics into universities in 1990/91 because they knew full well the move would be financially unsustainable. They would never admit that of course. It must have come as a real shock to them when they unexpectedly won the election in 92 but they didn't want to move too far too fast and not set the touchpaper alight. The conversion also probably helped create the so-called Mickey Mouse degrees too. Now the latest rant is that students can't do these degree at university yet it's alright to do them under apprenticeships for lesser qualifications and where the students can be exploited as cheap labour. Why do people fear students so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 It's incredible. What's going to happen when there aren't enough graduates and the entire UK economy in ran into the ground, unless the cuts make the economy even worse first? It's just like it always is under the tories. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18984938 Remind me who introduced tuition fees and who decided that it was a good idea to have 50% of the population doing pointless degress in underwater basket weaving...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 this may give you some answers: http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/ It did. Unfortunately, those answers tend to add weight to my original questions. Where are you going to get the proper apprenticeships? How are you going to persuade apprentices to stay on the apprenticeship until they are qualified? Who is going to monitor the standards of the qualification? I tried the 'Apprentices' link on the page you referred me to. I asked for apprenticeships in Electronics in South Yorkshire. I got 14 adverts, with 15 vacancies. - None of which was in electronics. A couple of electrical engineering apprenticeships (close, I suppose) a number of offers for an 'apprenticeship' as an administrative clerk, offers for apprenticeships in automotive engineering (Probably worth having - but not what I asked for), an offer for an 'apprenticeship' in customer service and one as an IT Support worker. (Probably about the nearest to what I actually asked for.) When I left school, less than 10% of school leavers went to University. Some left at 14, 15 or 16 and some stayed on until they were 17 or 18 and then went either into (usually sponsored) HND courses or apprenticeships. Large employers (GPO Telephones, Rolls-Royce, British Thompson-Houston, Marconi, Vickers ... the list goes on) Medium -sized employers and even small employers provided apprenticeships. Small employers are (understandably) often reluctant to take on apprentices, medium-sized firms might (though some of the 'apprenticeships' on offer look remarkably like 'cheap labour' and although there are some really good apprenticeship schemes, they are horrendously over-subscribed. "...BT typically has 15,000 applicants for 100 places each year. Rolls-Royce has ten applicants for every place and Network Rail is similarly oversubscribed. There is far greater competition for some of these courses than there is for places at Oxford or Cambridge. And there’s good reason for this. These types of courses offer a route to good salaries and quick promotion at world-beating firms..." That's from a speech (a speech which is, perhaps well-worth reading) by Michael Gove. (I don't 'have a lot of time for Mr Gove, but he makes a number of really good points in that talk.) He made that speech in Sep 2010. What has he done to implement the ideas he suggested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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