Help stop kitten experiments at Cardiff University.

[biotechpete]

No. I claimed a belief.

 

I'm promoting one species anyway; bacteria. We need them, they don't need us. They were here long before us, and will be here long after us. We're tiny in comparison to their success.

 

My apologies, not one of your posts. I like bugs too.

[PaliRichard]

Again, how is that you get to decide what reserach should or shouldn't be done? Especially since you are meely equal to all other animals.

 

I'm not deciding.

 

I'm saying ask for volunteers from the species that we know have the cognitive faculty to understand the issue.

 

I'm not saying you must use humans.

[biotechpete]

There are four grounds philosophically used to seperate us from animals, they have all been shown to be wrong since their development.

 

1. Animals don't trade.

2. Animals don't plan for the future.

3. Animals don't have self recognition.

4. Animals can't use tools.

 

All of these traits have been observed in the animal kingdom. All of the traits were decided upon when the religions that gave man a superior place in the world had a grip over much of society, it is highly likely that part of their formulation was exactly because they hadn't been observed and thus upheld that unique position held by man.

 

But the contrary poitions are also religious ones.

[PaliRichard]

But the contrary poitions are also religious ones.

 

Why are they?

[biotechpete]

The existance of a sense of superiority is justification enough to experiment on something you consider 'less' than yourself for the benefit of those you consider are worthy of that experimentation?

 

Please don't tell me that's what you're saying.

 

If that is ones belief then it's self evidently enough justification. What I'm getting at is that a) this is practically only down to belief b) the ability to understand a sense of superiority is perhaps a justification enough for claiming it.

 

I asked what makes that sense bizarre or unjustified just becuase you happen no to agree?

 

There are lots of things I find bizarre (a lot of them on here) yet I don't seek to prevent other people carrying them out (with the exception of NHS funding for homeopathy). There are also lots of things which I might not be able to justify yet others seem able to justify it. It's just a case of cultural values and beliefs.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

How can you be "more x" if no judgement is being implied?

No judgment re being supposedly 'better'.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

I'm just opposed to human beings thinking we're superior

...without having explained the rationale for your opposition.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

contrary to all the evidence

...of which there's none.

[biotechpete]

I'm not deciding.

 

I'm saying ask for volunteers from the species that we know have the cognitive faculty to understand the issue.

 

I'm not saying you must use humans.

 

OK so I'll ask a bunch of cats if they object.. I'm guessing they won't.

 

So either, we are all equal or, some creatures have a greater, perhaps even superior, capacity for understanding.

 

And as an extension of that train of thought, if you believe that humans have a moral imperative to protect creatures which lack that cognative capacity, where does the justificaiton for that imperative arise?

[llamatron]

...without having explained the rationale for your opposition.

 

the argument does not make sense. We are animals so how can we possibly be superior to animals. It makes absolutely no sense. Try refining the sentence and it might, just might, be possible to argue your position.