tinfoilhat Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 He could be saying to the wife that he does not want to do it only for her to turn round and say 'yeh he's really up for it'. How does anyone know if he is being exploited or not, truthfully? Are we saying ONLY his wife can communicate with him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Dent Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 For me, he was the greatest boxer of all time. He should know when it is time to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 He could be saying to the wife that he does not want to do it only for her to turn round and say 'yeh he's really up for it'. How does anyone know if he is being exploited or not, truthfully? I don't know if he's still capable of nodding or shaking his head when asked questions by anyone else. If he is, the problem goes away of course. If he isn't, then no we would not have proof, but we'd have to take it on faith that his wife will be complying with his wishes out of love for him. For the record, I'm not entirely sure that I disagree with you, but when I first posted I did not know if you were aware that people with Parkinson's can be mentally sharp. Many diseases that cause that much ruin to the body, debilitate the mind as well and leave people in what is rather cruelly called a vegetative condition. If that were true of Ali, I would absolutely support your position, but it is not; I assume that he made his wishes known, though I must admit I can't know that for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hard2miss Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Are we saying ONLY his wife can communicate with him ? I don't know who he communicates with, it was said earlier that he spoke through his wife. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hard2miss Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 I don't know if he's still capable of nodding or shaking his head when asked questions by anyone else. If he is, the problem goes away of course. If he isn't, then no we would not have proof, but we'd have to take it on faith that his wife will be complying with his wishes out of love for him. For the record, I'm not entirely sure that I disagree with you, but when I first posted I did not know if you were aware that people with Parkinson's can be mentally sharp. Many diseases that cause that much ruin to the body, debilitate the mind as well and leave people in what is rather cruelly called a vegetative condition. If that were true of Ali, I would absolutely support your position, but it is not; I assume that he made his wishes known, though I must admit I can't know that for certain. That's what Parkinson Disease is, nodding and shaking, so I'm sure it would need a lot of personal time with him to know if he was communicating or not, but that is where the problem lies because we would never know how much he wants any of this and only have those close to him to believe, the very people that are probably doing ok out of these appearances. It should be time for people to stop asking for him to attend these events and let the man have a dignified retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Are we saying ONLY his wife can communicate with him ? I don't know who he communicates with, it was said earlier that he spoke through his wife. Who knows? He is certainly incapable of speaking, or writing anything down. He must therefore communicate through someone, but he may be - and very probably is - still capable of nodding or shaking his head. He may have enough muscle control to be able to use a word board, and point at words one after another with a stylus of some kind, but I doubt that. I mentioned his daughter (or wife as I now know) only because she was the one there with him. He could, of course, have nodded agreement to take part to any number of officials, but I don't know if he did. I don't even know if that information would be available without someone writing in to ask, and it seems - to me, anyway - unreasonably intrusive of a man who suffers such a horrific illness, to be posing direct questions of that nature. Going back to the original point, though, hard2miss - if we accept, for the sake of the argument, that he was a willing participant and that he made that well known, would you still argue that it would be better he had not made an appearance? It wouldn't be a completely stupid argument, although I wouldn't agree with it. If we accept, conversely, that his wife made the decision for him, I would be decidedly uncomfortable about his participation on those terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 He could be saying to the wife that he does not want to do it only for her to turn round and say 'yeh he's really up for it'. How does anyone know if he is being exploited or not, truthfully? They don't in the same way you don't..you're making assumptions based on a fact that because of his disability your own sensibilities are offended (unless you're speaking for everyone) There are some that would like to see those with disabilities hidden away because they 'struggle with being comfortable' in their presence...an embarrassment. As HN has said, if he is capable of making decisions then for me he can go on till he is literally unable. He would probably be dead by now if it wasn't for his shear determination to keep involved, even if that is now limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 There are some that would like to see those with disabilities hidden away because they 'struggle with being comfortable' in their presence...an embarrassment. I will admit, here, to being of that type. I get very uncomfortable at seeing visible disabled people (missing arms and legs, that sort of thing) in public roles. However, I am reasonable enough to accept that just because it makes me uncomfortable is, absolutely and unequivocally, no reason at all for them not to do it. They're just as entitled to be in public as anyone else is, and if I have a problem with that it is my problem, not theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hard2miss Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Going back to the original point, though, hard2miss - if we accept, for the sake of the argument, that he was a willing participant and that he made that well known, would you still argue that it would be better he had not made an appearance? It wouldn't be a completely stupid argument, although I wouldn't agree with it. If we accept, conversely, that his wife made the decision for him, I would be decidedly uncomfortable about his participation on those terms. No, if he was wanting to be there then of course he has every right, having Parkinsons does not mean that he has any less rights than anyone else. My point is that these organisers should stop asking him, he is obviously only capable of little interaction and is more just an object of wonder and pity now more than anything. Non of us could ever know how much he even wants it so we should question whether its right to have him attend. He is still obviously much loved for his contribution to the sport of Boxing and people can still make money out of him but should they be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLakeland Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Great boxer but a racist, that shouldn't be forgot or excused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.