Drone Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Drone's wrong, and so are you. "A lack of belief in God" is atheism, and atheism is "a lack of belief in God". "A belief that God does not exist" is atheism, but atheism is not "a belief that God does not exist". Adding the second definition might help explain the meaning but it is unecessary, insisting on it though is misleading. It's like reading a dictionary definition for murder as follows ... ... and insisting on the second definition, which might exclude the actions of Harold Shipman. Insisting on the second definition of atheism might fit neatly with your narrow stereotype of some dogmatic irrational atheist, but exclude every atheist I have ever met. BTW pick up a dictionary that is more than a hundred years old and you will only find the first definition for atheism, the only one that matters. The second definition, which you like, only began to appear in the last century, and a recent conservative edition of a dictionary that I picked up in the US even added the "definitions" of evil and untrustworthy. See where this is going? You obviously not getting what onewheeldave is sayin. What he says is correct. But what I'm saying is coz atheist originally means to not believe, I'm not an atheist. I can only believe what is determined to be true as a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'm not looking at dictionaries on what atheist means, i am going on what it means in the bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 They can only prove it to themselves in their own mind, since there don't seem to be any objective scientific tests. Some people claim to have seen God (or even several different gods). Exactly, and I would argue that anybody who claims to know is lying or deluded. I've never met a sensible atheist who claims there is no god, but have met a few clerics and people claiming to have a personal relationship with god. I have never met anyone who claims to have seen God or anyone who says they can prove there is a God,i know a few who have faith,and have what they would call a personal relationship with God.I have faith too,but i can't explain how it developed. I also have the odd moments of doubt sometimes too,which i believe all people with a religious faith do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Exactly, and I would argue that anybody who claims to know is lying or deluded. I've never met a sensible atheist who claims there is no god, but have met a few clerics and people claiming to have a personal relationship with god. It's a bit strong to call all strongly religious people liars & deluded. Some people may feel they have subjective proof that's good enough to convince them. Others have simply been taught that way, never questioned it & remained ignorant of any other possibilities. I would have to question the sanity of people that claim to see god or communicate with god directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I have never met anyone who claims to have seen God or anyone who says they can prove there is a God,i know a few who have faith,and have what they would call a personal relationship with God.I have faith too,but i can't explain how it developed. I also have the odd moments of doubt sometimes too,which i believe all people with a religious faith do. I think you're right for the majority of people, but some people perhaps have never questioned their belief, or maybe they feel they have some kind of subjective proof. There are also plenty of delusional people around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 You either believe or you don't believe, that's a binary choice, it's one or the other. It's about whether you put your trust in it being true or not. Being agnostic & being atheist are two separate things, it's possible to be one, both or neither. One is about not knowing, the other is about not believing. If you're agnostic, are you an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist? You can believe in a religion without having proof that it's true, just like you can not believe without having any proof of it being false. I'm just agnostic, that's it, that's what I been trying to describe to you all day and I don't want to believe in a religion if I don't know if it's true or not. . I'm not going to follow something that I don't know is there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I don't want to believe in a religion if I don't know if it's true or not. . Atheism is not a religion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'm just agnostic, that's it, that's what I been trying to describe to you all day and I don't want to believe in a religion if I don't know if it's true or not. . I'm not going to follow something that I don't know is there Wouldn't you need to know what God is to be able to assert that it’s not possible to know anything about the existence or nature of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'm just agnostic, that's it, that's what I been trying to describe to you all day and I don't want to believe in a religion if I don't know if it's true or not. . I'm not going to follow something that I don't know is there That makes you an agnostic atheist, if you don't follow any religions. Most agnostic theists would identify with a particular religion & follow it even though they aren't sure. Atheism isn't a religion, it describes somebody who doesn't believe in any gods. Gnostics do exist, a simple google battle proves it (as much as I can be bothered): "proof that god exists" gets about 1,130,000 results, "proof that god doesn't exist" gets about 294,000 results. I was searching for those specific terms in quotes so those aren't bad scores, they're out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 It's a bit strong to call all strongly religious people liars & deluded. Some people may feel they have subjective proof that's good enough to convince them. Others have simply been taught that way, never questioned it & remained ignorant of any other possibilities. I would have to question the sanity of people that claim to see god or communicate with god directly. It is a bit strong, so I would never accuse anybody directly, but that is what I think about people adopting a gnostic position with respect to God. When somebody say "I know God exists because he helped me get over my cat's death", I just nod my head and think deluded, even if I don't say it, even if they are a friend. We are all deluded about many things, and I don't exclude atheists from that merely because we share a position in response to a single question. However, do a google search on "I know god exists because" and you will get 433,000 links to many deluded excuses. I do suspect that many clerics are liars though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.