Waldo Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 God is the universe. OK, the universe exists, I'm sat in it for a start, so yeah by this definition God exists as we can provide primary characteristics of what the universe is. Well. You actually *are* the universe. The notion that you are someone separate from and sat in it, is just a thought in your mind. You're mind is the universe too. Basically, you are god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Correct that is what I was trying to explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 God is within us is what I meant by that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I am not so sure that what I said at all represents your position... Are you conceptualising 'god' as being something other that that which you actually are? Do you recognise that god exists just as a thought form, that you yourself are holding on to, and regurgitating within the context of your own mind? Do you understand the psychological dynamics at play, which cause you do hold on so tightly to such a notion? The context with gives rise to the notion of god, is your own being. To my mind, holding on so tightly to religious concepts is a viscous and dis-honest thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Well. You actually *are* the universe. The notion that you are someone separate from and sat in it, is just a thought in your mind. You're mind is the universe too. Basically, you are god. Cool. Now where are my hordes of adoring followers(Preferably of the female beach volleyball type, naked)? jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I now can no longer remember what my point was or why my soap box was so high... Moving on... you say most believers do have a definition of their God yet to date I have only come across ones which fall into one of several categories, these being: 1) Secondary characteristics such as "God is good", "God is all powerful" or "God is all knowing". None of which actually tell me anything about the existant which gives rise to these properties. As an analogy* if I were to say to you "This computer is annoying" and you were to respond "What is a computer" it would be absolutely no use to you if I were to reply "It's slow and too heavy" as I haven't answered the question, I have simply provided further secondary characteristics rather than state what a computer is such that it has the capacity to be annoying, slow and heavy. So, when I ask for a definition of God I am not looking for a list of secondly characteristic but rather a fundamental expression of it's character that can give rise to these secondary characteristics. So, what properties of God allow it to be "All knowing" or "All powerful" etc. 2) God created the universe and everything in it, or God controls the universe. Again this tells us nothing about the nature of God such that it has the capacity to do these things. Without a description of it's primary character we can make no judgement on whether it is even capable of doing the things it's meant to be able to do. This has the effect of rendering such statements as meaningless. In other words we must know what a thing is before we can apply the secondary characteristics to it of what it can do. 3) God is the universe. OK, the universe exists, I'm sat in it for a start, so yeah by this definition God exists as we can provide primary characteristics of what the universe is. Now, somewhere around here I had a point... hmmmm... Oh yes, so what I would like is for a theist to provide me with some fundamental primary attributes which describe God such that it may do the particular things or affect things in the world in a particular way. * and assuming you don't know what a computer is... By aliens we typically mean a lifeform on another planet. We can define life... jb You could take something from " god is all powerful" if you take god as the universe and so with no beginning, they is no end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Ok, fair enough, but my difficulty is that when they say 'you can't know God - only his signs' (or similar) that the ignostic position doesn't allow for the testing of that evidence because you're sat around waiting for a definition. Why would you even consider testing those signs when their claim is a contradiction, to make the claim you can’t know God, they would have to Know God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Cool. Now where are my hordes of adoring followers(Preferably of the female beach volleyball type, naked)? jb That's the only problem. Everyone else is god too. ... and the beach volleyball girls are goddesses, in every sense of the word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Is it just me or does anyone get the impression it isn't only theists that are confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Ok, fair enough, but my difficulty is that when they say 'you can't know God - only his signs' (or similar) that the ignostic position doesn't allow for the testing of that evidence because you're sat around waiting for a definition. my criteria is taking the evidence they give for their position (for example - a common one - we know God exists because he gave us signs that science has since verified which the people of time couldn't have known - or another one, these predictions came true) is to test that evidence. If we find that the explanation they give doesn't stand up, we can then assume that their idea of what God is capable of is flawed, if their whole idea of what he is happens to be flawed, then we can assume it doesn't exist. I'm not sure if I'd worded that right, I'm trying to do a million things at once so I hope you get my point? OK, that was my misunderstanding, I thought you meant a specifically intelligent alien lifeform. Sorry, I hold my hands up to completely misunderstanding that On the post ' atheist worse nightmare '.. I suggested I was only agnostic and not agnostic atheist but as atheist was set as a definition, people were saying I was atheist or agnostic atheist but after researching what I was doing all night I came to atheist denial, ( after many hours) which to me and I'm only suggesting me, it gave me answers so I realised I wasent agnostic or ignostic or atheist or agnostic atheist, i was infact atheist denial, without knowing I was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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