MrSmith Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 No I wouldn't. My position is non belief. If someone approaches me claiming God exists (say a Muslim) I only have to take into account their position. I don't have to take every possible description of God into account because the default position of humans is simply non belief. If someone claims belief the onus is on them to provide evidence. How do you know you lack belief in its existence without knowing what it is. A question for you. Do you belief it exists, or do you lack belief that it exist. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 That's not true though is it, because you said God couldn't. God exists in the mind of people, it is an idea, therefore it exists. It has an effect, it creates actions through peoples beliefs, it creates acts of compassion and hatred in its name. It has an effect whether it is real or not, therefor it should be said to exist in one sense, even if 'ultimately' it doesn't. What about things that are likely to exist but we don't know? Like aliens, can they be described objectively? If you define God as a subjective idea that exists in the minds of people then yes, it does exist. That in no way gives it an objective reality. I'm also pretty sure most theists think there idea of God also exists outside of the minds of men. If you want a discussion of fairy tales and wild imaginings then cool, go for it. If you want a discussion about things that have objective reality then you're going to have to do better than "I think it exists therefore it does". jb ETA: Can aliens be described objectively? Yes of course they can, what a bizarre statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Love? Hate? Fear? The unknown? Piers Morgan? The first three are electrochemical response in the brain to either internal or external stimuli. The unknown, tell me something I don't know. Piers Morgan is the definition of a ****. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 To me atheism is the belief that there is no god. I do dislike the active anti-theist atheists, people are entitled to believe what they want as long as it doesn't harm anybody. Anybody is entitled to scrutinise, criticise, question and even mock religious practice, doctrine, traditions and culture but I can't help but think atheists who vigirously attack and mock a believer with the aim on convincing them to the atheist point of view is not only a pointless and futile task, they're ironically engaged in the sort of behaviours they so dislike of the religious types that they are so anti. Peace to you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirmisher Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Why? There may well be alien life forms in the universe we're not aware of. We currently have no evidence for them, that doesn't mean they're not there. Just because we don't know (and therefore are perfectly entitled to believe they are not there) it doesn't mean they are not there. Just because something exists it is not a default that we have evidence that it exists and therefore have to believe in it. Don't quote part of my post, read ALL of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 It can only be #1 - No belief in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 On the grounds of anti Theism being an assertion of a position that requires evidence and atheism not being. The position of lacking a belief in God is intrinsic, we are all born into that state. It requires no evidence because you are making no ascertion. The position of actively beleiving there is no God requires a philosophical position. It does require evidence because you are ascerting that God definately doesn't exist. They are both, as you correctly pointed out, positions of atheism but one is positive and one is not. No discussion can progress if you are making the assumption that two alternative positions are the same thing. Some people think atheism is the beleif in no God while some hold that it is merely lack of beleif. The logical position would be to seperate them so the definition is clear, especially if you're going to go to the trouble of explaining the two positions anyway. I'm not saying that the 2 positions are the same thing though. What I'm saying is that 1. some people consider 'atheist' to mean lack of belief in God 2. some people consider it to mean a belief that God doesn't exist 2 very different positions 3. most online threads on the issue of atheism/God have a mixture of these two types of people and, at least in part, become flame wars due to the fact that either a) they don't realise they're using different defintions, or b)they do (eventually) realise, and then proceed to argue about which of the 2 definitions is correct and how stupid the other side is for sticking to their preferred definition 4. the usual method of deciding whether a definition is 'correct' i.e. checking a dictionary, is not much use because- 5. current dictionaries are a hotchpotch, some using the first definition, some the second, and others, both definitions I can tell from much experience on those threads, that discussion does not progress if it's about convincing the opposition that your preferred definition is correct and theirs is wrong. Discussion can, however, progress, if both sides accept that the other side defines 'atheism' differently, and they simply make clear, when using the term 'atheist', which one they are using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 It can only be #1 - No belief in God. You weren't tempted then, to offer up some kind of justification for that very dogmatic statement? a shred of evidence, maybe, or, a few thoughts/words... a bit of reasoning to back up your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 The unknown, tell me something I don't know. By "the unknown" I don't mean something you don't know, I mean the idea of the unknown. Some people are scared of what they don't know, others take it as a challenge to be solved, and many are ambivalent to it, thinking if I don't know about it, I don't care about it. It's something which affects people on a day-to-day basis, but is very difficult to define or quantify, because it affects different people in completely different manners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 You weren't tempted then, to offer up some kind of justification for that very dogmatic statement? Other people better than me on here already, and I've got shopping to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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