What is Atheism?

[mj.scuba]

Assuming that you accept I am "entitled to scrutinise, criticise, question and even mock religious practice, doctrine, traditions and culture" but you don't think I should do it vigorously, would you care to give me examples of what is borderline acceptable, and what is borderline unacceptable, because I am curious to know where you think the line is.

 

Since I am more than happy for theists to engage with me vigorously and attempt to convince me of their theistic point of view, I enjoy debate, and welcome the prospect of changing my mind and learning, I fail to see any of the hypocrisy that you are hinting at. Attempts to be convinced of an alternative position is not behaviour that atheists dislike, and it might be futile, but it can be entertaining, informative and enlightening.

 

Just last weekend I was visited at my home by people prothyltising for Islam for the first time. The young men were polite, they gave me a leaflet about Islam, and we had a friendly chat. But they arrived unannounced on a Sunday morning, and knocked on my door. Now, I've been called a militant atheist on this very forum merely for engaging in debate on a forum dedicated to debate. What does this make these polite doorstep salesmen for Islam?

 

Theism and atheism are simply yes/no positions of belief with respect to a single question. Neither of these positions alone motive anybody, or are belief systems in themselves.

 

I didn't say it isn't acceptable or shouldn't do it, I'm just saying what I think of it

[Skirmisher]

But isn't atheist greek??

 

This forum isn't

[Drone]

This forum isn't

But that was a cheap shot to avoid the reply

[RootsBooster]

I'm not saying that the 2 positions are the same thing though.

 

What I'm saying is that

 

1. some people consider 'atheist' to mean lack of belief in God

2. some people consider it to mean a belief that God doesn't exist

 

2 very different positions

 

No, two similar but different positions. 2 automatically means that you are also 1, in that people who believe God doesn't exist also lack belief in God. It doesn't work both ways though, being 1 doesn't automatically mean that you are also 2.

[Skirmisher]

But that was a cheap shot to avoid the reply

 

Ok...........

[janie48]

I didn't say it isn't acceptable or shouldn't do it, I'm just saying what I think of it

 

From the sound of his post you've made him very angry,i wouldn't wish to cross him while he's in that mood.

[quisquose]

I didn't say it isn't acceptable or shouldn't do it, I'm just saying what I think of it

 

Yes, I read what you think of it which is why I'm asking you where you think the line is, in your mind, before atheists have become as bad as the "religious types that they are so anti", and give some real life examples.

 

Go on give it a go, I'm curious to see if you can back up your statement.

 

First you will need to establish some behaviour in the religious that atheists are so "anti" of. This might be difficult, because most atheists welcome vigorous debate and the potential of changing their minds. Many atheists, like myself, have already changed their minds.

 

Then you will have to provide evidence of equal behaviour from atheists.

 

I realise you will need to make some sweeping generalisations in this thought process, but it should be interesting.

[mj.scuba]

Yes, I read what you think of it which is why I'm asking you where you think the line is, in your mind, before atheists have become as bad as the "religious types that they are so anti", and give some real life examples.

 

Go on give it a go, I'm curious to see if you can back up your statement.

 

First you will need to establish some behaviour in the religious that atheists are so "anti" of. This might be difficult, because most atheists welcome vigorous debate and the potential of changing their minds. Many atheists, like myself, have already changed their minds.

 

Then you will have to provide evidence of equal behaviour from atheists.

 

I realise you will need to make some sweeping generalisations in this thought process, but it should be interesting.

 

Well, there are theists that will shove religion and there god down your throat, and there are atheists that are equally as bad.

 

I've expressed an opinion on that, I've no need to provide evidence in order to express an opinion.

[quisquose]

Well, there are theists that will shove religion and there god down your throat, and there are atheists that are equally as bad.

 

You don't like people shoving their views down people's throats, I've no problem with that, but that's not exactly what you said. You implied that there are atheists who are just as bad because they do to theists precisely what they don't like being done to themselves.

 

There is a subtle difference, but an important one because the suggestion you made, and is often made, is of hypocrisy.

 

The atheists I know don't mind having religion "shoved down our throat", at least to a point. The atheists I know tend to value freedom of speech, so proselytise away.

 

The line for me is my own doorstep, I think that is intimidating and rude, no matter how polite the door knockers are, and I would never go knocking on doors to shove atheism down people's throats. Another line for me is the school classroom.

 

The line for others may be different, but to back up your statement with evidence you would need to show consistent occasions where atheists complain of behaviour from theists, and yet do the same in return.

 

When atheists go knocking on people's doors, you might have a point.

 

I've expressed an opinion on that, I've no need to provide evidence in order to express an opinion.

 

In which case I will assume it was just a throwaway remark, with no valid justification.

[Chris_Sleeps]

I did mention the 'rationalists' old favourite i.e. entomology (i.e. the origin of words) in an earlier post and gave my reasons for not rating it as being all that relevant to the issue.

*cough* Etymology *cough* Entomology is insects.

 

It's hard to correct that without being patronising. I didn't intend it.

 

Wiktionary cover the meanings of the word, but I don't consider myself to fit in with all of them:

 

1. (narrowly) Belief that no deities exist (sometimes, excluding other religious beliefs).

2. (broadly) Rejection of belief that any deities exist (with or without a belief that no deities exist).

3. (very broadly) Absence of belief that any deities exist (including absence of the concept of deities).

4. (loosely, rare) Absence of belief in a particular deity, pantheon, or religious doctrine (notwithstanding belief in other deities)

I'd consider myself to be in 2, 3 and 4. Most people are atheist if you use the word as widely as number 4.

 

I understand the word to be ¬Belief.

 

Theism is a belief in God or Gods, so Atheism is a not-belief.