SilentStatic Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 In my experience, skills and qualifications don't count for anything. It's *experience* people want. Which can be somewhat elusive when you're not employed for office work because you don't have experience of working in an office for x number of months Particularly frustrating was when I was told I couldn't do a temporary job entering data into a computer (which I was phoning as a last resort) because I hadn't done a paid similar job before. Never mind that I achieved a top A level grade in Computing, including an A for coursework which involved creating a database from scratch then *entering data into it* and had done a year of a Computer Science degree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by SilentStatic In my experience, skills and qualifications don't count for anything. It's *experience* people want. Which can be somewhat elusive when you're not employed for office work because you don't have experience of working in an office for x number of months Particularly frustrating was when I was told I couldn't do a temporary job entering data into a computer (which I was phoning as a last resort) because I hadn't done a paid similar job before. Never mind that I achieved a top A level grade in Computing, including an A for coursework which involved creating a database from scratch then *entering data into it* and had done a year of a Computer Science degree... Sounds to me more like you were overqualified. Although none of those quals indicate anything about your ability to enter data quickly and accurately, so there's no reason for them to have given you that job on the basis of your quals. If you had an NVQ in data entry (should such a thing exist) you may at least have gotten a tryout. I often have to try and convince potential employers that I won't get bored and that, yes, I can stick it. I'm not often successful it must be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by SilentStatic In my experience, skills and qualifications don't count for anything. It's *experience* people want. Which can be somewhat elusive when you're not employed for office work because you don't have experience of working in an office for x number of months Particularly frustrating was when I was told I couldn't do a temporary job entering data into a computer (which I was phoning as a last resort) because I hadn't done a paid similar job before. Never mind that I achieved a top A level grade in Computing, including an A for coursework which involved creating a database from scratch then *entering data into it* and had done a year of a Computer Science degree... I agree that qualifications mean nothing (to me). But skills !? ... surely skills equate to ability !? ... are skills not the result of experience !? As for the data entry job ... I agree with phan ... u sound way too over qualified ... sounds more like a job for a supermarket checkout monkey than a skilled programmer !! The person telling you that you couldn't do the job ... words fail me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alert_bri Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by Jamie sounds more like a job for a supermarket checkout monkey than a skilled programmer !! You'd be amazed how many supermarket checkout 'monkeys' are ex-burned out professionals or mums who need to work around their kids! Try chatting with a few and gain some experience! /rant off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by alert_bri You'd be amazed how many supermarket checkout 'monkeys' are ex-burned out professionals or mums who need to work around their kids! Try chatting with a few and gain some experience! Really Brian !? ... and I thought they just shipped them in from twcross zoo !!! hehe :-) ... (joke) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by Jamie I agree that qualifications mean nothing (to me). But skills !? ... surely skills equate to ability !? ... are skills not the result of experience !? As for the data entry job ... I agree with phan ... u sound way too over qualified ... sounds more like a job for a supermarket checkout monkey than a skilled programmer !! The person telling you that you couldn't do the job ... words fail me. Thing is jamie, when they say that they are saying it from experience. I had a hard time with my agency convincing them to take me on for a data entry job. It was a six month contract and boy was it dull. By the end I was virtually gnawing my own arm off, but I stuck it for 6 months just to show them. And I agree with Bri. Having a job commensurate with your skills is not always what you want. Sometimes a simple MacJob whilst you concentrate more fully on life's real pleasures is just what is required, but the employers have long ago grown wise to the fact the the vast majority of 'overqualifieds' end up quitting or walking because they think their intelligence is constantly being insulted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hi, I'm not sure I agree with the 'get a Macjob to allow you to focus on what you really want to do' way forward. The hours are usually long, the pay, by definition, crap and the stress of doing work that might indeed induce you to chew an arm off is quite high! the result is that if you then want to do soem sort of 'creative' work in your own time it's difficult to do so. If having a Macjob means you're stressed for money as well, tehn it takes a peculiar sort of mind to be creative whilst starving - ignore tha 'starving artists in garretts' rubbish. All you think about if you're really hard up with the bailiffs calling is when they'll call again! I'd prefer to get a temporary / contract job, build up the money then spend soem tiem working my own projects full time - or do a 3 or 4 day a week temp / contract job and leave time for your own projects like that. Money's better, less stress, more interesting. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 For those that asked.... Most agencies who deal with IT contracting will want to deal with a Limited Company. You can : a. Set your own up (costs about 100, but you need to have a separate bank account and find soemone else to act as either Director or Company Secretary with you). b. Use the services of an Umbrella company who effectively employ you for the duration of your contract. They charge for the privelege but you get paid after having your tax deducted so it's a no brainer in terms of accountancy. If you don't know whether you'll stick contracting, (b) is best. For general information, look at http://www.jsagroup.co.uk - these guys are the Umbrella company I use. Despite the initials no relation to Job Seekers Allowance! Option (a) used to be very cost effective in terms of minimising income tax as you could pay yousrelf a low salary and take the rest of your pay in Dividends, which are taxed at a low rate. HOWEVER, Gordon closed this option with something called IR35 so unless you plan to make a go of contracting permanently I'd avoid the hassle of (a) until you're sure. Skills Required ========== Currently saleable skills are C++, VB, SQL, Web skills - just check out Jobserve for an idea. http://www.jobserve.co.uk Providing you have the skills and are reasonably personable you'll get work. The latter is quite important - as a contractor you're expected to hit the ground running and be productive very quickly. This means you don't have the time to upset the permies! The Advantages of Contracting ====================== Flexibility and pay. You'll get paid more than you would as a permie and you can be flexible in when and where you work. Typical contract lengths are 3 or 6 months, though extensions are becoming more common again. I started my current contract at HBOS in 2001 on a 6 month contract, and have been extended several times since then. If you want to take time out, simply do so at the end of a contract. You also avoid the office politics! And by doing short term contracts you don't get so bored and your skills / experience develop. Disadvantages ========== Lack of security, although nowadays a lot of permie jobs seem to be on a short term basis as well!! :-) NEVER expect a contract to be extended. Always start looking a month or so in advance of the end date. You have to find your own Health Insurance, Training, Pension, run your car, etc. Some expenses are reclaimable through the umbrella company or your own Limited company, but take an Accountant's advice or the advice of teh Umbrella company. Flexibility works two ways - sometimes when the ****'s hitting the fan you'll be expected to put in longer hours. You don't get promoted. You almost certainly won't get management responsibility. You're not really 'part' of the company. In fact, I ike to think of myself as an IT Soldier of Fortune - a sort of mercenary! Much more romantic! Going Native ========= Some contracts go on, and on, and on...you start getting invitatyions to Christmas parties and such....you're becoming a highly paid part of the company. I call it 'Going Native' after what happened to the British Empire wallahs who took on board Indian wives and large palaces in the 18th Century. You might eventually be asked to join the company, but there are occasionally problems here, mainly taking a whacking pay cut and negotiating fees with the agency. Another facet of Going Native is when a lot of management decisions get batted towards you for advice, or when you start identifying with 'cliques' in the company. Your loyalty is basically to the team you work for and the person who manages you and signs your timesheets. Stay out of the politics in a professional manner and you'll have a good contracting career. If you want to 'belong', go permanent. Well, hope this helps - Jamie, will reply off forum as well but I'm off out now to do the 'day job':-) Have a good day, all! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Originally posted by JoePritchard Hi, I'm not sure I agree with the 'get a Macjob to allow you to focus on what you really want to do' way forward....Joe hmm I actually said "concentrate on life's pleasures" but top info on becoming an IT guerilla there, thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hiya, I stand corrected! Sorry about that - as I get older even the short term memory grinds to a halt. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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