What the tories really believe

[I1L2T3]

Then explain what is because all your suggestions always involve borrowing money.

 

No they don't. The Green Party had a manifesto commitment in 2010 to reduce the deficit, just like all the main parties did.

[saunaman]

Please tell me that we're approaching the end of Round One , I'm going "bozz-eyed" reading all these lengthy and disjointed posts between sparring individuals ( initial posts good but this is just TOO much

[MrSmith]

No they don't. The Green Party had a manifesto commitment in 2010 to reduce the deficit, just like all the main parties did.

 

I’m not talking about the green party; I’m talking about your suggestions that always involve borrowing more money.

[MrSmith]

No they don't. The Green Party had a manifesto commitment in 2010 to reduce the deficit, just like all the main parties did.

 

The Green Party Economy wants to move away from an obsession with growth, which wouldn't fit in with your obsession with growth.

 

http://greenparty.org.uk/policies/policies-2010/2010manifesto-economy.html

[I1L2T3]

The Green Party Economy wants to move away from an obsession with growth, which wouldn't fit in with your obsession with growth.

 

http://greenparty.org.uk/policies/policies-2010/2010manifesto-economy.html

 

eh?

 

The economy does need to grow but grow sustainably. I've never argued anything else. I agree with the Greens that growth is not in itself the goal. The consequences need to be considered.

 

Growth is important right now though so that we can get the deficit reduced. Simple as that.

[MrSmith]

eh?

 

The economy does need to grow but grow sustainably. I've never argued anything else. I agree with the Greens that growth is not in itself the goal. The consequences need to be considered.

 

Growth is important right now though so that we can get the deficit reduced. Simple as that.

 

But growth and deficit reduction don’t go hand in hand; the deficit grew whilst we had growth. We can reduce the deficit whilst we have negative growth by cutting spending, this in turn cuts consumption which is one of the goals of the green party.

[LeMaquis]

We can reduce the deficit whilst we have negative growth by cutting spending.....

 

The problem with cutting spending is that it's deflationary and causes unemployment. That means fewer people and firms pay tax to the government and more people receive benefits. In other words government income falls, government spending goes up and the deficit increases. See the following about the deficit rise two months ago;

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/21/us-britain-economy-idUSBRE87K0GW20120821 which contains the following quote

 

"At this rate, borrowing for 2012/13 overall will massively overshoot the Office for Budget Responsibility's forecast," said Vicky Redwood, economist at Capital Economics.

[I1L2T3]

But growth and deficit reduction don’t go hand in hand; the deficit grew whilst we had growth. We can reduce the deficit whilst we have negative growth by cutting spending, this in turn cuts consumption which is one of the goals of the green party.

 

I totally agree with the reduction of consumption as a medium-long term goal. But in the current system, which will not change overnight, the economy has to be growing to get the deficit down.

 

If the economy is shrinking, tax revenues are falling but government spending is going up (welfare costs, increase in interest rates due to loss of confidence of markets) then the deficit increases and so does the debt. Going back to Tory policies (to kind of keep the thread on topic) Osborne's deficit reduction plan was absolutely predicated on growth. He estimated 2-3% a year.

 

But absolutely yes we must switch to consuming less and rebalance the economy to be more sustainable. It's a tough sell though - this country is one of the most consumerist in the world.

[MrSmith]

The problem with cutting spending is that it's deflationary and causes unemployment. That means fewer people and firms pay tax to the government and more people receive benefits. In other words government income falls, government spending goes up and the deficit increases. See the following about the deficit rise two months ago;

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/21/us-britain-economy-idUSBRE87K0GW20120821 which contains the following quote

 

"At this rate, borrowing for 2012/13 overall will massively overshoot the Office for Budget Responsibility's forecast," said Vicky Redwood, economist at Capital Economics.

 

 

 

 

Not necessarily, cutting public sector spending doesn’t have to increase unemployment as long as the jobs are increased in the private sector; this has been the case but unfortunately immigration as exceeded job creation, which in turn increased unemployment, population expansion due to immigration also increases consumption which seems at odds with green policy.

If public sector cuts did cause deflation which I doubt, I’m sure most people would welcome it because their wages have been deflating whilst the cost of living has been increasing.

 

The problems always stem back to over population, if the population is decreasing then the economy can also decrease, government spending can decrease, consumption can decrease, job creation can decrease, urbanisation can decrease, whilst food production can stay the same. People would become wealthier and poverty would be less of a problem, with fewer people starving or dying from lack of water.

[MrSmith]

I totally agree with the reduction of consumption as a medium-long term goal. But in the current system, which will not change overnight, the economy has to be growing to get the deficit down.

 

If the economy is shrinking, tax revenues are falling but government spending is going up (welfare costs, increase in interest rates due to loss of confidence of markets) then the deficit increases and so does the debt. Going back to Tory policies (to kind of keep the thread on topic) Osborne's deficit reduction plan was absolutely predicated on growth. He estimated 2-3% a year.

 

But absolutely yes we must switch to consuming less and rebalance the economy to be more sustainable. It's a tough sell though - this country is one of the most consumerist in the world.

 

No it doesn't, increased spending in the public sector can only increase the deficit as seen over the last decade.

The government could increase tax revenues tomorrow and make the economy grow just by employing 1 million extra people in the public sector, but the extra tax revenues and growth wouldn’t be very desirable because the growth would also increase the countries deficit and debts and mean more money has to be spent on interest to service these debts.