Hillsborough document release

[Strix]

So that Liverpool supporter was wrong or isn't credible??

 

Seems you dont want to hear anything that doesn't fit your Thatcher-stormtroopers-killed-96 Liverpudlians narative.

The year before, there was a police cordon turning away any fans that didn't have tickets. Which nutter, in the poverty stricken 80's, knowing how tight a ship SY police run for football matches, is going to fork out the cost of travel to stand in a street in Sheffield? I'm not saying the figure was zero, but the 'hordes' you're alluding to just didn't exist

 

The authorities accept that those who entered the ground by scaling the perimiter had tickets, why do you believe you know better than them?

 

Of the 2000 who entered the ground when the gates were opened, how many of those were ticket holding fans the police had held at Wadsley Bridge station until 2.30?

[mikem8634]

I find the bit at roughly 58:50 interesting, where the Liverpool supporter talked about how the previous year there was a police cordon 50 yards back from the Leppings lane turnstyles and anyone without tickets were not aloud to even go to the turnstyles, whereas on that particular saturday there was no such cordon.

 

Now you could ask, why no police cordon like the previous year, but a more pertinent question would be, why are large numbers of Liverpool fans trying to enter the ground without tickets?

 

So that Liverpool supporter was wrong or isn't credible??

 

Seems you dont want to hear anything that doesn't fit your Thatcher-stormtroopers-killed-96 Liverpudlians narative.

 

 

 

 

Firstly - I am impressed as you have finally provided some evidence in an attempt to substantiate one of your ongoing claims. I hope this will signify a commitment to jettison the unsubstantiated allegations and that we will see you to continue to attempt to use evidence to back up your arguments.

 

Now, regarding the actual evidence - here is what the fan said:

 

"It was handled totally different by the police. The police put a cordon 50 yards away from those turnstiles and if you didn't have a ticket you didn't get past that cordon, you were turned away. So, of course, we've got the position this Saturday where people going to the turnstiles - no tickets"

 

1. You say 'large numbers' and for that you have no evidence. If anyone has ever claimed that there were absolutely no ticketless fans at Hillsborough then they are on dangerous ground. I am sure there must have been some as there were, and probably still are, at most major football events.

 

2. This is the perspective of one man. If he stands by his assertion I would quite happily accept that there were some Liverpool fans without tickets.

 

3. In my opinion there is a context issue here, especially as this statement is presented in a part of the rolling footage that is reporting police dissatisfaction with the criticism they were receiving. He is making a case for a failure in policing and using, in my opinion, the possibility that ticketless fans could have been allowed through that year, as opposed to the year before, as an example of that failure in policing. As I say, that is my opinion only. I would, however, like to see the rest of his interview. Did I mention that this is my opinion often enough? If some evidence could be provided to disprove my opinion I would accept it. That is how it works.

 

4. It has been proven that ticketless fans were not present in significant numbers and did not contribute to the disaster -

 

"The Police Federation, supported informally by the SYP chief constable, sought to develop and publicise a version of events derived in police officers' allegations of drunkenness, ticketless fans and violence. This extended beyond the media to parliament," said the panel."From the mass of documents, television and CCTV coverage disclosed to the panel there is no evidence to support these allegations other than a few isolated examples of aggressive or verbally abusive behaviour clearly reflecting frustration and desperation. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the dead and injured."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/12/hillsborough-disaster-david-cameron-apologises

Papers relating to the conspiracy theory around ticketless Liverpool Supporters put forward by South Yorkshire Police http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/SYP000033180001.html

“I have already found that there was not an abnormally large number of fans without tickets on this occasion. With one or two exceptions, the police witnesses themselves did not subscribe to the ‘conspiracy’ theory (of a large number of late-arriving ticketless supporters). I am satisfied that the large concentration at Leppings Lane from 2.30 pm to 2.50 pm did not arrive as a result of any concerted plan." The Interim Taylor Report, paragraph 208.

 

5. If you accept the Liverpool fans statement that there were ticketless fans do you also accept that there was a policing failure regarding the cordon?

 

6. Seems you dont want to hear anything that doesn't fit your Thatcher-stormtroopers-killed-96 Liverpudlians narative.

 

Here is another link to the HIP report http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/

Pot?

Kettle?

Edited October 23, 2012 by mikem8634

[mikem8634]

Sir Norman Bettison has resigned as chief constable of West Yorkshire Police, saying an inquiry into his role after the Hillsborough tragedy was "a distraction" to the force.

 

At the time of the disaster he was a South Yorkshire Police inspector who attended the match as a spectator and later took part in an internal inquiry.

 

Sir Norman said questions over his role had become a "distraction to policing".

 

He had been due to retire in March but had faced calls for him to go early.

 

Margaret Aspinall, chairwoman of the Hillsborough Families Support Group, said: "I'm absolutely delighted he's gone but as far as I am concerned he should have been sacked."

 

West Yorkshire Police Authority said media attention and the investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) were "proving to be a huge distraction for the force".

 

Sir Norman has been referred to the IPCC over allegations he provided misleading information after the disaster, in which 96 Liverpool fans died.

 

His resignation comes after candidates bidding to become West Yorkshire's police and crime commissioner called for him to stand down now rather than retire in March as planned.

 

In a statement, Sir Norman said: "The police authority, and some of the candidates in the forthcoming PCC elections, have made it clear that they wish me to go sooner.

 

"I do so, not because of any allegations about the past, but because I share the view that this has become a distraction to policing in West Yorkshire now and in the future."

 

The police authority said Deputy Chief Constable John Parkinson would take up the role of acting chief constable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20067716

[Strix]

"I do so, not because of any allegations about the past, but because I share the view that this has become a distraction to policing in West Yorkshire now and in the future."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20067716

I'm pretty certain the guy is arrogant enough to believe the lies he concocted

 

He needs stripping of his knighthood

[Jeffrey Shaw]

I'm not even sure that a knighthood is capable of removal- but, even if it were, what's the point?

Far better to find those who committed criminal offences and get 'em.

[mikem8634]

I'm not even sure that a knighthood is capable of removal- but, even if it were, what's the point?

Far better to find those who committed criminal offences and get 'em.

 

It is possible via the Forfeitures Committee -

 

Having honours taken away

Someone’s who’s been given an honour and has done something to bring the honours system into disrepute can have their honour taken away (‘forfeited’). Examples include if someone has been:

 

sentenced to imprisonment of at least 3 months for a criminal offence

censured, struck off etc by a relevant professional or regulatory authority for something directly relevant to the granting of the honours (eg a doctor has been struck off)

Other criteria can be considered as well. The Honours Forfeiture Committee’s discussions are confidential.

 

Forfeiture - what happens

 

The Honours Forfeiture Committee looks at the evidence and considers the case. If the committee makes a recommendation that an order should be forfeited, it is submitted to the Queen by the Prime Minister. The Queen decides if the honour should be forfeited.

 

If someone’s honour is forfeited it’s published in the London Gazette.

 

https://www.gov.uk/nominate-honour/having-honours-taken-away

 

 

I suppose as the investigations continue Bettison may well be charged with criminal offences. We'll see.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

But he didn't kill anyone, surely, nor was he ever allegedly drunk and disorderly; so what criminal offence did you have in mind?

[tingle165]

What would have happened if police had not opened the turnstiles??/ Would there have been more tragic deaths outside the ground. Every picture i see of outside the ground is hundreds of liverpool fans trying to force their way in. The fans that died were all innocent fans with valid tickets.

[mikem8634]

But he didn't kill anyone, surely, nor was he ever allegedly drunk and disorderly; so what criminal offence did you have in mind?

 

Perverting the course of justice perhaps?

[Gazza58]

What would have happened if police had not opened the turnstiles??/ Would there have been more tragic deaths outside the ground. Every picture i see of outside the ground is hundreds of liverpool fans trying to force their way in. The fans that died were all innocent fans with valid tickets.

 

Im guessing you mean,what would have happened if the gates had not been open. If so then yes there would have most likely been many deaths outside.