Hillsborough document release

[Dick]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p011s1rx

This guy was on Rony Robinson's show last Sunday.

He was actually at the match and say's that 20 mins before the start the Nottingham end was full but the Liverpool end wasn't half full.

He knew then there would be trouble and to this day can't understand why kickoff wasn't delayed.

Many mistakes were made, but it certainly wasn't all the police's fault

The bit where he's speaking about this is 49 minutes 45 seconds into the show if the link doesn't start in the right place.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Dick

[rossyrooney]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p011s1rx

This guy was on Rony Robinson's show last Sunday.

He was actually at the match and say's that 20 mins before the start the Nottingham end was full but the Liverpool end wasn't half full.

He knew then there would be trouble and to this day can't understand why kickoff wasn't delayed.

Many mistakes were made, but it certainly wasn't all the police's fault

 

A major accident on the m/way accounted for a large amount of latecomers,tied in with the fact that the fans that had travelled by train were held at Wadsley Bridge Station by the police until quite near to kick off.

 

With these things in mind i too find it hard to understand why the kick off wasn't delayed by fifteen minutes.

[mikem8634]

You need to read the statements of the Liverpool Police who worked outside the Leppings Lane end. Also what of the fans ( drunk and ticketless ) arrested before the tragedy happened but never appeared in court, where are there names ??

 

 

ARRESTS ON SATURDAY, 15 APRIL 1989

F.A. CUP SEMI FINAL - NOTTINGHAM FOREST v LIVERPOOL

 

Chief Superintendent Wain,

Headauarters’ Incident Room

Forwarded for your attention, please, as requested by the Deputy Chief

Constable, a list of arrests arising from the semi final tie on the 15 April

1989.

 

Those verbally cautioned in respect of these matters were the individuals

who were released at the time of the disaster to enable officers to be

directed to other duties.

Chief Superintendent

’F’ DHQ 3.5.89 /

FROM:

TO:

SOUTH YORKSHIRE POLICE

Detective Sergeant 952 Charlesworth

Chief Superintendent Duckenfield

 

REF: F/JR/DS 952

STATION/DEPT: DIO

DATE: 28 April 1989

SUBJECT: ARRESTS ON SATURDAY 15 APRIL 1989 FA CUP SEMI FINAL- NOTTINGHAM

FOREST v LIVERPOOL

 

With reference to the above I have to report as follows:

Arrests in and around the Hillsborough Ground in connection with the

above game totalled 44. Of these, 10 were charged, bailed to court and

released. The delay in charging prisoners 10, 11, and 12 at F Division

was due to the fact we were unable to verify them until these times.

 

Attached is a sheet showing full details of all prisoners, material

times and their disposal.

 

,~In addition there is a further list attached showing a further 14

arrests in D Division during the build-up to the kick off time and who

in fact never got further than the Midland Station and City Centre,

with the exception of two who were arrested later. These being a Notts

Forest fan at 17.28 in Pond Street, for s4 Public Order Act and a

Liverpool fan at 18.55 at the Midland Station for being drunk and

disorderly.

 

The total arrests therefore in connection with football supporters for

the above date is 58. I have checked with the other Divisions of the

South Yorkshire Police, A, B, C and E and there were no arrests in

connection with the subject of this report.

 

Of the 58 prisoners, 24 were charged and bailed to court, 24 were

verbally cautioned and i0 were ejected from the ground. One of the

prisoners from D Division, ]has already been dealt

with. He was remanded in custody after his arrest and appeared before

Sheffield Magistrates Court on 17 April 1989 charged with s~ Public

Order Act and offensive Weapon. He was fined £200.00 on each charge

with £15.00 costs.

 

I would at this point like to point out that the adverse publicity in

the national press in respect of prisoners appearing at Sheffield

Magistrates Court on Tuesday 25 April 1989, were in no way connected

with prisoners dealt with at either F1 or F2 on the 15 April 1989, but

were in fact prisoners from D Division who never got as far as the

ground or its proximity.

 

I submit this report, together with the attached lists of prisoners and

their details for your information.

Detective Sergeant 952

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/index.html search for Details of persons arrested at the 1989 FA Cup Semi Final

 

So - 58 arrests

44 at the ground 14 before reaching the ground.

Of the 44 Liverpool fans numbered 27

Of that 27 2 were ticket touts who were arrested/cautioned for obstructing footpaths

 

The remaining 25 included -

 

6 alcohol-related

Possess alcohol on attempt to enter - verbal caution

Enter whilst drunk - verbal caution

Enter whilst drunk - verbal caution

D&D - verbal caution

D&D - verbal caution

Drunk and incapable - verbal caution

 

3 drug-related

Possess cannabis - verbal caution

Possess cannabis - charged and bailed to SMC 2.5.89 17.40 hrs

Possess drugs - verbal caution

 

3 Ticket-related

Try to enter no ticket - ejected

Enter no ticket - ejected

Climb over turnstyles - ejected

 

13 Others

Obstruct PC - charged and bailed to SMC 2.5.89 17.50 hrs

Abusive language - ejected

6 Section 4 - verbal caution (I'm guessing this relates to fear/provocation of violence under the Public Order Act 1986 - please correct me if I'm wrong)

Climb from terraces to stand - ejected

Urinate in ground - ejected

Climb over barrier to perimeter fence - ejected

Entering opposite supporters - ejected

Disorderly behaviour - ejected

 

For the sake of perspective and not to imply any criticism whatsoever, there were 15 alcohol-related arrests of Notts Forest fans.

Edited December 28, 2012 by mikem8634

[Owlsforever]

A major accident on the m/way accounted for a large amount of latecomers,tied in with the fact that the fans that had travelled by train were held at Wadsley Bridge Station by the police until quite near to kick off.

 

With these things in mind i too find it hard to understand why the kick off wasn't delayed by fifteen minutes.

 

And the fact a vast majority of fans arriving by coach got off before arrival at the ground.

[Hemibr]

You are welcome to the info on the website, my pleasure although I am a total loss regarding who is wanting to have you imprisoned and for what. .

 

Me too as regards the causes - i just placed a FOI request to Irwin Mitchells due to some discrepancy over a court hearing i was meant to attend but wasnt summoned.

 

Mr Irwin Mitchell provided me with a bundle of docs of which one was a statement asking for me to be awarded a custodial sentence with an evidential item provided by the Chief Constable.

 

Having not been invited to the hearing i cant rally say what the fuss was about but the fact that the police are assisting civil parties is corruption.

 

I cant pin down the identity of the corrupt officer colluding with Irwin Mitchell by any other means that reporting the event as a crime - That has been done - or by handwriting comparison which i was hoping to do via Hillsborough released documents and the handwriting sample and initials i have been provided with under FOI request.

 

The hot picks for imprisonment are contempt of court and breach of the official secrets act as these are easiest to fit up.

 

Its identical to what plebgate would have been but for the video evidence - a lying cop undetectable only in this case the cop lying on oath has contradicted public records on oath -Still has highly placed friends on the force at the mo as per Bernard Hogan Howe supporting the plebgate officer - they dont admit the blindingly obvious if its to their detriment.

[mikem8634]

I am curious to know how many people still making issues of alcohol consumption, late arrivals and ticketlessness have actually read the HIP report?

 

Regarding the reports by the mounted officers from Liverpool, I find nothing in there that alters the conclusions drawn in the HIP report. Yes, there is much mention of fans drinking but nobody has ever said that every Liverpool fan was sober as a judge. All that has been concluded is that levels of alcohol consumption were average for that type of event and played no part in the ensuing events.

 

The officers have also talked about the difficulty in managing the crowd. Well, as the report points out, those people were being slowly crushed. I would be surprised if they weren't agitated, angry and unco-operative. How aware were the officers of the bigger picture that has been presented in the HIP report?

 

There is a very real possibility that what the officers called unco-operative was actually a crowd so badly mismanaged by that point that to comply and somehow move back as one was impossible - I do accept, however, that that is speculation.

 

Nobody has ever said that there were no drunk, late or ticketless fans. To claim that is to build a strawman. The factors that several of you cannot seem to come to terms with have been deemed irrelevant for, what I believe to be, solid reasons, the vast majority of which are discussed in detail in the report.

 

I would be grateful if somebody could point me to an announcement and/or explanation of this proposed 3pm cut-off time that the new inquiry is adopting.

Edited December 29, 2012 by mikem8634

[JuncoGardner]

me aswell, certainly from going on what a work collegue at work told me about the day, he was a steward on the infamous gate and always thought the fans had to shoulder some of the blame. i'll have to see what he thinks now the report has come out. it looks like thing were covered up so an apology is owed by whoever it was

Real peace and closure will only come when we can all accept all of the factors that led to this heartbreaking tragedy. The new revelations are shocking to the core. But they don't mean we didn't see fans doing what they did in the hour before. Those poor people and their families deserve the full truth.

[Hemibr]

Real peace and closure will only come when we can all accept all of the factors that led to this heartbreaking tragedy. The new revelations are shocking to the core. But they don't mean we didn't see fans doing what they did in the hour before. Those poor people and their families deserve the full truth.

 

I have yet to see an issue raised which should not have been policed pre match, pre stadium, pre fixture by an authority body much higher up the pecking order than the fans and the publicans.

 

But then again i started the thread with a personal agenda as i have been a victim of suppressed police evidence and police cover up and Hillsborough for whatever reason has compelled them to cough up.

 

If these policing techniques rely on 23 year tragedies and persistent families to be uncovered then ought you not to wonder what the police hold on you and what their intentions are ?.

 

S Y Police jesters with garbage.

[Mr Bloom]

i dont know about anyone else but i am getting fed up of hearing about hillsborough this and that! new enquiry, blame them blame him etc etc etc its not going to bring those poor people back, it looks to me just a way for easing a few conciences, the simple fact is that the ones who died were doing no wrong apart from being in the wrong place at the wrong time! as for no blame being apportioned to the liverpool fans what a load of ******* if thats the case just answer this were all the fans outside lining up in an orderly queue awaiting their turn to enter sober as judges...............NO! blame can be put in many directions but again Liverpool are playing the victims again.

 

Were 96 of them 'playing dead' too?

[Hemibr]

As a timely round off it seems Keith Vaz reckons public confidence in the police following the doctored statements at Hillsborough ad the fabricated evidence at plebgate is on the waiver.

 

Nice to see he,s on the ball Birmingham 6 Guildford 4 Stefan Kiszko Stephen Lawrence, Jill Dando, Rachel Nickell..........god knows how many deaths in custody without consequence..... success stories all -

 

Anyways i digress as the thread was started for personal reasons having been refused the identity of a police officer by S Y FOI team.

 

The thread has born personal fruit as the officer may or may not be Robert Creaser based purely on having the correct initials and being exposed via Hillsborough docs.

 

When one barrister told me i was a victim of perverse justice and then another and then another - i.e three different unconnected barristers on 3 separate court room appearances ( none of them instructed by me) announced that they were aware of an incidence of perverting the course of justice then you,d think the cops would have something to go on irrespective of who is involved in the cover up.

 

Follow the evidence wherever it may lead according to Mr Cameron irrespective of whether that be to the desk of Tony Blair -get him before he makes pope cos then it will be difficult.

 

 

 

A good starting point would be to speak to those barristers and perhaps say ask for the reasoning behind three unconnected barristers making allegations over the evidence of a police officer.

 

Heres me thinking we had a bad apple but turns out theres and orchard and the ripe fruit is a dropping with Hillsborough.

 

Now if like me you have been done up like a kipper from those all powerful S Y Policey people the kryptonite is now at hand and their powers and procedures are under the spotlight.