Lockjaw Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I am curious to know if that is directed at me and, if so, why? Sorry Mike; no, it wasn't aimed at you. I was referring to one of Fred's many issues. spineless bully spineless head teacher spineless sub-class that run this country the youth of today are such are load of spineless wimps. spineless regulatory body spineless, idle, bleating teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I have it on good authority that not one Liverpool supporter was either drunk or attended the match without a ticket.My source? The Unbiased HIP (Hillsborough Indepenndent Panel) where 3 of the 7 members were born and bred in Liverpool.Whitewash? Never in a million years:)This debate will continue until most of us on here are 6 feet under Reading through your sarcasm I would ask you the following questions - Who has suggested that not one Liverpool supporter was either drunk or attended the match without a ticket? Do you have any evidence to suggest that drunk and/or ticketless fans played a significant part in the tragedy? Have you actually read the report or just decided that it is biased by looking at the cover? Other than your assumptions, do you have any evidence that there was a whitewash or that any of the panel members were biased? ---------- Post added 27-02-2013 at 13:30 ---------- Sorry Mike; no, it wasn't aimed at you. I was referring to one of Fred's many issues. No problem, I was a bit surprised, and assumed I must have been mistaken. ---------- Post added 27-02-2013 at 13:32 ---------- Have you ever read through scores of statements from locals and people from around the area.If not then I suggest you have a little peek through them Yes I have, thanks. However, if you would like to link to anything specific I'll certainly have a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlsforever Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Reading through your sarcasm I would ask you the following questions - Who has suggested that not one Liverpool supporter was either drunk or attended the match without a ticket? Do you have any evidence to suggest that drunk and/or ticketless fans played a significant part in the tragedy? Have you actually read the report or just decided that it is biased by looking at the cover? Other than your assumptions, do you have any evidence that there was a whitewash or that any of the panel members were biased? ---------- Post added 27-02-2013 at 13:30 ---------- No problem, I was a bit surprised, and assumed I must have been mistaken. I have read many of the statements from pub landlords to business people to Merseyside mounted police officers have you?When you have, get back to me and let me have your thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frededwards Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I would be happy to consider it as part of the discussion we are having as I hope any poster would consider the evidence presented to them - is that not the very essence of civilised debate? To fail to do that is a prescription for bigotry and uninformed prejudice - surely you agree? What behaviour did you see that contributed significantly to the tragedy? Do you have any corroborating evidence to substantiate it other than your word? If you find me boring you are free to ignore me. The only credible evidence that I am aware of to suggest there has been any whitewash surrounding Hillsborough is that which damns the politicians, media and senior police officers involved. If you mean there has been some other form of whitewash then, by all means, present you case and see if it stands up to scrutiny. I note you have been asked to do this before in post 1143 http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9425316&postcount=1143 and failed to do so. Myself and others gave evidencial statements at the time to people legally mandated to investigate events. The initial investigation was flawed, but broadly accurate. The subsequent review was merely an exercise in appeasing the victim’s families in the light of the wrong-doing of the South Yorkshire Police Service. Witness evidence that did not support the victim’s families view, or the view of events they wanted portrayed was side-lined. I raised the issue with various people at the time of the enquiries report release, but no-one in the public eye dare speak out upon this matter now as to follow any line other than the line that purports that the fans were free of any blame is now deemed to be tantamount to Holocaust denial. No amount of obsessing and CtrlC-CtrlV from conspiracy theorists, such as yourself, will alter this. ---------- Post added 27-02-2013 at 13:40 ---------- Sorry Mike; no, it wasn't aimed at you. I was referring to one of Fred's many issues. God! You must lead an interesting life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I have read many of the statements from pub landlords to business people to Merseyside mounted police officers have you?When you have, get back to me and let me have your thoughts Yes I have thanks, and my thoughts are well documented in this thread if you care to take a look. Myself and others gave evidencial statements at the time to people legally mandated to investigate events. The initial investigation was flawed, but broadly accurate. The subsequent review was merely an exercise in appeasing the victim’s families in the light of the wrong-doing of the South Yorkshire Police Service. Witness evidence that did not support the victim’s families view, or the view of events they wanted portrayed was side-lined. I raised the issue with various people at the time of the enquiries report release, but no-one in the public eye dare speak out upon this matter now as to follow any line other than the line that purports that the fans were free of any blame is now deemed to be tantamount to Holocaust denial. No amount of obsessing and CtrlC-CtrlV from conspiracy theorists, such as yourself, will alter this. So that would be no evidence at all to back up your opinions then would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strix Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 What about the "hatred towards the match attendees" by those, living locally, who witnessed what actually happened. Is that to be ignored? it has already been proven that what many people 'witnessed' is coloured by assumption and media reports after the incident Many of the fans who were 'late', for instance, had been held at the nearby train station for over half an hour by the police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frededwards Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 What kind of evidence would you deem suitable? ---------- Post added 27-02-2013 at 13:49 ---------- Many of the fans who were 'late', for instance, had been held at the nearby train station for over half an hour by the police The ones sat outside my local pub for over two hours, getting absolutely inebriated, until five minutes before the match started weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 What kind of evidence would you deem suitable? Third-party, credible, corroboration - something that substantiates your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 God! You must lead an interesting life! Just a casual observer, old bean. Some people wear their problems on their sleeves, though. ---------- Post added 27-02-2013 at 13:55 ---------- What kind of evidence would you deem suitable? ---------- Post added 27-02-2013 at 13:49 ---------- The ones sat outside my local pub for over two hours, getting absolutely inebriated, until five minutes before the match started weren't. Seriously Fred. Have you ever seen drunken people at a football match before? If so, did 96 people die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) What kind of evidence would you deem suitable? ---------- Post added 27-02-2013 at 13:49 ---------- The ones sat outside my local pub for over two hours, getting absolutely inebriated, until five minutes before the match started weren't. So...? and...? this is my point exactly. You saw a handful of fans, let's say a hundred, drinking outside a pub until 5 mins before kick off and have assumed that that is significant to the tragedy. Every investigation has looked at it in context and deemed that it is not. It is something that occurs at every major football match and is nothing out of the ordinary. Nobody has ever claimed that there were no drunk fans, or that some didn't turn up at the last minute - what has been claimed and proven is that their numbers were unremarkable for an event of this kind and played no significant part in the subsequent tragedy. Edited February 27, 2013 by mikem8634 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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