Hillsborough document release

[Hillpig]

I was a licensee in Sheffield at that time. I also attended the match. On my way to the game I commented to friends that " I have never seen so much booze". I witnessed the behaviour of Liverpool fans at Leppings lane, It was disgraceful.

 

I gave a statement to Birmingham Police the week after the incident. I would have thought that as an individual involved in the selling of alchohol on a daily basis, and as someone used to dealing with people who were worse or drink my opinion would have been relevant.

 

No one has ever contacted me and my feeling is that any evidence that contradicts or challenges that which exonerates the supporters is ignored.

 

Can you please present the following -

 

a) evidence of fans not behaving like civilised human beings?

 

b) evidence that the day would have passed without injury without such behaviour?

 

 

Please allow me to, once again, draw your attention to this -

 

The Panel has quite simply found "no evidence" in support of allegations of "exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans", "no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium" and "no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying... and that alcohol consumption was "unremarkable and not exceptional for a social or leisure occasion".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...l-8130555.html

 

... and here for much more of the same http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9286357&postcount=1006

[Mr Bloom]

I was a licensee in Sheffield at that time. I also attended the match.

 

Do you mind if I ask where you were in the ground on that day, and how you came by your ticket please?

[Strix]

I have seen it strix, and like I have said before to those who feel justified in the finger pointing, and the bandwagon jumping, there was a combination of factors, I have been in crowds myself at football matches, where similar situations outside the turnstiles have occurred, and as human beings we do have a responsibilty for our actions, including queueing in an orderly fashion .... this rarely happened outside football stadia back then.

I have said before hindsight is a wonderful thing, your post backs up that view !

 

A crowd of people who, half a mile from the ground, occupy the full width of the street through sheer numbers, are just not able to 'form an orderly queue'. They've arrived adjacent to somebody, and the people arriving behind them preventing them from moving backwards... unless they are supervised and filtered, which was the job of the police...

[Owlsforever]

I was a licensee in Sheffield at that time. I also attended the match. On my way to the game I commented to friends that " I have never seen so much booze". I witnessed the behaviour of Liverpool fans at Leppings lane, It was disgraceful.

 

I gave a statement to Birmingham Police the week after the incident. I would have thought that as an individual involved in the selling of alchohol on a daily basis, and as someone used to dealing with people who were worse or drink my opinion would have been relevant.

 

No one has ever contacted me and my feeling is that any evidence that contradicts or challenges that which exonerates the supporters is ignored.

A shop keeper who had premises on the corner of Leppings Lane and was open that day also left a statement to West Mids Police describing the disgraceful behaviour of the fans.She along with many others were not contacted again or asked to give evidence in court.I wait with anticipation for another excuse ???

[Strix]

I'm wondering how all of these drunken fans who were behaving so badly managed to avoid the cameras. I'm not saying that there weren't any drunk fans, but what exactly did they do? There seem to be a handful of people here claiming they were badly behaved without qualifying or quantifying that. Singing loudly (for instance), whilst it may be intimidating to onlookers, doesn't constitute 'guilty of murder'

[Owlsforever]

I'm wondering how all of these drunken fans who were behaving so badly managed to avoid the cameras. I'm not saying that there weren't any drunk fans, but what exactly did they do? There seem to be a handful of people here claiming they were badly behaved without qualifying or quantifying that. Singing loudly (for instance), whilst it may be intimidating to onlookers, doesn't constitute 'guilty of murder'

 

I have said it before when you have Liverpool mounted police officers stating it was the worse crowd they have policed in30 years for their general behaviour and their statements are deemed irrelevant ,well nothing more from me

[mikem8634]

I was a licensee in Sheffield at that time. I also attended the match. On my way to the game I commented to friends that " I have never seen so much booze". I witnessed the behaviour of Liverpool fans at Leppings lane, It was disgraceful.

 

I gave a statement to Birmingham Police the week after the incident. I would have thought that as an individual involved in the selling of alchohol on a daily basis, and as someone used to dealing with people who were worse or drink my opinion would have been relevant.

 

No one has ever contacted me and my feeling is that any evidence that contradicts or challenges that which exonerates the supporters is ignored.

 

A shop keeper who had premises on the corner of Leppings Lane and was open that day also left a statement to West Mids Police describing the disgraceful behaviour of the fans.She along with many others were not contacted again or asked to give evidence in court.I wait with anticipation for another excuse ???

 

Nobody has suggested that there were no fans who were drunk. Nobody has suggested that there were no fans who behaved disgracefully. What has been categorically stated by investigations with far more scope and access to information than provided here is that such behaviour was unremarkable for such an event and was not a significant factor in the ensuing tragedy.

 

Just think about it for a moment, please. What does eye witness testimony that some fans were drunk and poorly behaved actually prove? Not what assumptions can be made from it? Not what must it mean? But what does it prove?

 

And, most importantly, what evidence is there that it proved a significant factor in the tragedy?

[Strix]

I have said it before when you have Liverpool mounted police officers stating it was the worse crowd they have policed in30 years for their general behaviour and their statements are deemed irrelevant ,well nothing more from me

 

have you got a link to that at all? I'd like to read it. There's a word missing from your assertion. It's too ambiguous

[Owlsforever]

have you got a link to that at all? I'd like to read it. There's a word missing from your assertion. It's too ambiguous

 

Look at South Yorkshire police statements under HIP.I really am giving up though now

[mikem8634]

I have said it before when you have Liverpool mounted police officers stating it was the worse crowd they have policed in30 years for their general behaviour and their statements are deemed irrelevant ,well nothing more from me

 

You have said it before.

 

I have responded before.

 

 

Regarding the reports by the mounted officers from Liverpool, I find nothing in there that alters the conclusions drawn in the HIP report. Yes, there is much mention of fans drinking but nobody has ever said that every Liverpool fan was sober as a judge. All that has been concluded is that levels of alcohol consumption were average for that type of event and played no part in the ensuing events.

 

The officers have also talked about the difficulty in managing the crowd. Well, as the report points out, those people were being slowly crushed. I would be surprised if they weren't agitated, angry and unco-operative. How aware were the officers, at the time, of the bigger picture that has been presented in the HIP report?

 

There is a very real possibility that what the officers called unco-operative was actually a crowd so badly mismanaged by that point that to comply and somehow move back as one was impossible - I do accept, however, that that is speculation but it is substantiated by research into crowd dynamics.

 

More can be read about crowd dynamics here - Understanding Crowd Behaviours - University of Leeds - commissioned by, and prepared for, the Cabinet Office

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/62639/supportingevidence1_0.pdf