Hillsborough document release

[Mr Bloom]

I have no need to apologies for the Hillsborough victims. And like I said previously they were the victims. Arrived with plenty of time. With tickets. Accessed the ground correctly. Patiently waited for the match. Got killed by there own fans outside. I'm not saying the police did not make mistakes but you take the people who were causing the commotion outside the ground away then it would not have happened.

 

Yes you do. You blamed drunken, ticketless fans for the disaster, which is a lie.

 

Maybe you should have watched the Panorama programme this thread is about.

[tigsthecat]

Yes you do. You blamed drunken, ticketless fans for the disaster, which is a lie.

 

in your opinion. i can only speak the truth. Sorry if you do not agree.

[mikem8634]

in your opinion. i can only speak the truth. Sorry if you do not agree.

 

Why has every single investigation into the disaster clearly stated that druken, ticketless fans played no significant role in the events of the day?

[Mr Bloom]

in your opinion. i can only speak the truth. Sorry if you do not agree.

 

It is also the opinion of Lord Justice Taylor and the largest independent review and subsequent report on the disaster, and now, it appears - the BBC.

 

You cite one incident that pretty eventful day, and then announce you speak the truth based upon it.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Mr Bloom

[tigsthecat]

sorry, was you there?

[mikem8634]

in your opinion. i can only speak the truth. Sorry if you do not agree.

 

Do you have any answer to this?

 

Independent Police Complaints Commission Statement

 

In response to Norman Bettison’s claim that Liverpool fans made policing Hillsborough ‘more difficult than it needed to be’

 

61. It was unwise of Sir Norman Bettison to issue a press statement attempting to exonerate himself immediately after publication of the report. It was also insensitive and inappropriate to make reference to fans’ behaviour at all – bearing in mind that publication of the report represented a vindication for the fans that their behaviour was not a factor.

 

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/pr_121012.aspx

 

 

Prime Minister’s statement to the House of Commons

 

A narrative about hooliganism on that day was created which led many in the country to accept that it was somehow a grey area.

Today's report is black and white.

The Liverpool fans "were not the cause of the disaster".

 

The Panel has quite simply found "no evidence" in support of allegations of "exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans", "no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium" and "no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying."

11.01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6c3gvAoqnM

 

And that alcohol consumption was "unremarkable and not exceptional for a social or leisure occasion".

 

05.35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6c3gvAoqnM

 

 

The Hillsborough Independent Panel Report

 

The disclosed documents show that multiple factors were responsible for the deaths of the 96 victims of the Hillsborough tragedy and that the fans were not the cause of the disaster.

 

In the days after the disaster the media, particularly the press, published allegations and counter-allegations apportioning blame. This came to a head on 19 April when a number of newspapers, The Sun being the most prominent, reported serious allegations about the behaviour of Liverpool fans before and during the unfolding tragedy.

 

The documents disclosed to the Panel show that the origin of these serious allegations was a local Sheffield press agency informed by several SYP officers, an SYP Police Federation spokeperson and a local MP.

 

They also demonstrate how the SYP Police Federation, supported informally by the SYP Chief Constable, sought to develop and publicise a version of events that focused on several police officers' allegations of drunkenness, ticketlessness and violence among a large number of Liverpool fans. This extended beyond the media to Parliament.

 

Yet, from the mass of documents, television and CCTV coverage disclosed to the Panel there is no evidence to support these allegations other than a few isolated examples of aggressive or verbally abusive behaviour clearly reflecting frustration and desperation.

 

150. Lord Justice Taylor's Interim Report condemned the evidence and testimony of senior police officers and rejected as exaggerated the allegations made against Liverpool fans. He stated categorically that fans' behaviour played no part in the disaster.

 

153. Consistent with Lord Justice Taylor's findings, the Panel found no evidence among the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying. Documents show that fans became frustrated by the inadequate response to the unfolding tragedy. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the injured and the dead.

 

http://hillsborough.independent.gov....mmary/page-14/

 

 

Even Bettison

 

“Critical police chief admits the fans were not to blame”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/u...cle3539383.ece

 

Plus all the apologies from people who would never have even considered it had they not been forced by the evidence -

 

The report prompted immediate apologies from Prime Minister David Cameron, the Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police David Crompton, Football Association Chairman David Bernstein, James Murdoch and Kelvin MacKenzie, then-editor of The Sun, for their organisations' respective roles

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19570810

 

---------- Post added 21-05-2013 at 02:27 ----------

 

sorry, was you there?

 

No thank god. Where were you?

Edited May 21, 2013 by mikem8634

[Mr Bloom]

sorry, was you there?

 

No. I'd been a football fan for a few years then, and knew what it was like being a fan during those times, visiting grounds all over the country, including Hillsborough.

 

---------- Post added 21-05-2013 at 02:42 ----------

 

I find myself wondering what the outcome would have been if those away fans had entered the stadium in an orderly fashion ?

 

You do realise Liverpool weren't playing Wednesday, don't you?

 

If the fans had been filtered so not to allow a build up outside at a known trouble-spot and then directed in to the pens appropriately, as was usually the case, then yes, things could have been very different.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Mr Bloom

[*_ash_*]

Yes you do. You blamed drunken, ticketless fans for the disaster, which is a lie.

 

Maybe you should have watched the Panorama programme this thread is about.

 

Panorama used to be a 'serious' documentary programme, presumably by an unbiased BBC. Now it's no better than Dispatches or the Sun [iMO, and you'll find I've written that before I watched this].

 

If you think it's so good/reliable (not that I'm saying this episode wasn't before you try and pick up on written words), can you answer me, why they use emotional music in the background on it now? Did you hear it?

 

I bet you didn't. I wonder if anyone did. Watch it again, it's all the way through. If you claim you heard it, then you should be able to answer why it was present. If you didn't hear, it, then why do you think they put it on?

 

Do you have any answer to this?

 

 

Mike might be able to answer my question.

[Hillpig]

Off the top of my head - corporate manslaughter, perverting the course of justice, criminal negligence and perjury.

 

Beat me to it Mr. Bloom.

 

I am basing my comment on the content of the BBC Panorama programme aired last night.

 

Whilst deploring the incompetence I do not believe that any criminal charge would be upheld.

 

The one aspect that does bear more scrutiny is the decision by West Midlands Police to allow South Yorks Police to write thier own statements. These were apparently written on plain paper and alterations were subsequently made. If this was done by senior south yorkshire officers then that could be serious and the perversion of justice aspect is possible.

 

However, I would be very suprised if such alterations/deletions would be taken without them first seeking advice by experienced legal representatives, if so, they have a defence in that they were merely making the statements admissable.

 

I must say that the way the bereaved families have conducted themselves is admireable.

 

---------- Post added 21-05-2013 at 09:06 ----------

 

I do think it unnecessary and very unpleasant for persons posting comments on here to be so insulting and disrespectfull.

 

This is a divisive issue, like any historical occurence there is more than one way of describing it, opinions will differ, surely it is possible to exchange opinions passionately without reverting to such language.

[Mr Bloom]

Panorama used to be a 'serious' documentary programme, presumably by an unbiased BBC. Now it's no better than Dispatches or the Sun [iMO, and you'll find I've written that before I watched this].

 

If you think it's so good/reliable (not that I'm saying this episode wasn't before you try and pick up on written words), can you answer me, why they use emotional music in the background on it now? Did you hear it?

 

I bet you didn't. I wonder if anyone did. Watch it again, it's all the way through. If you claim you heard it, then you should be able to answer why it was present. If you didn't hear, it, then why do you think they put it on?

 

 

 

 

Mike might be able to answer my question.

 

You're not the only one who has issues with the BBC, ash. As I have also made clear on this forum on many occasions.

 

The BBC waited too long to air this programme. They also let the Hillsborough families down. They had so much evidence of the day in terms of footage and should have been using their position to ensure justice for the 96 and their families.

 

I didn't find the music 'emotional'. Did they play 'Gone too soon'? If so, I missed it.

 

Appropriate sombre music is often added to footage of the holocaust in documentaries, or the titanic but I don't really think the producers of such documentaries think that it's necessary to create 'emotion' or 'empathy'. Producers often use music alongside footage as the audio is not available or of good enough quality. What music would you have rather them used? If there had just been silence, do you think you that would have made the programme less 'emotional'?

 

---------- Post added 21-05-2013 at 09:35 ----------

 

I am basing my comment on the content of the BBC Panorama programme aired last night.

 

 

....So was I.