Mr Bloom Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) I sure wouldnt be happy if someone came along 20 years (?) after I retired and decided that all the pension contributions I made from my salary would be taken off me due to one mistake I made whilst working for my employer. Is there precedent? I don't think anyone is actually suggesting that, are they? Edited April 29, 2015 by Mr Bloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegas1 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Well why not specify that then? People seem to be wanting elderly and frail men thrown in jail and be a burden on the taxpayer, so who knows what they want to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bloom Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Well why not specify that then? People seem to be wanting elderly and frail men thrown in jail and be a burden on the taxpayer, so who knows what they want to happen. If the Jimmy Savile story had come out a few years before his death, should he not been sentenced to jail because he was frail and elderly? Edited April 29, 2015 by Mr Bloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegas1 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 And do you subscribe to the view that those in positions of public responsibility that have been proven to have been negligent in their duties, contributing to mass loss of life in the most horrific manner, and have lied, covered up, perverted the course of justice, and even blamed victims for their own shortcomings, should be free from prosecution because they've covered up and withheld justice for so long that they've become old men? If the Jimmy Savile story had come out a few years before his death, should he not been sentenced to jail because he was frail and elderly? Its a dilemma, I agree, Im not saying they should be immune from prosecution but I dread to think how much it costs the taxpayer to keep a high dependency prisoner in jail. Think I read it costs £37k a year for a bog standard inmate, let alone one who needs extra adjustments and/or medical care. And I dont thinking throwing Dukinfield in jail would achieve absolutely anything, he isnt a danger to himself or the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) I've no feelings either way for Dukinfield, and although he claims in hindsight he wasn't up to the job, I wonder if anyone was, considering the situation? Were the gates forced like he claimed, or is this another lie? Are any fans going to admit forcing the gates? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-31623413 Edited March 11, 2015 by alchresearch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Day Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Were the gates forced like he claimed, or is this another lie? Are any fans going to admit forcing the gates? That was proven to be a lie about 20 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 well said , end of the day it was a massive cover up - im not sure what more will come out in the wash as they say . FACT remains big mistakes was made There are two completely separate issues here. The actions on the day regarding the way the crowd were being managed come down to past experience, training and ability, both in terms of the systems in place and the individuals involved. People making errors of judgement when working in good faith to the best of their ability should not be judged harshly, IMO, (especially those errors of judgement which are only identified with the benefit of hindsight, and also without a clear knowledge of what would have happened had different decisions been made). However, once the incident happened, there should be absolutely no excuse for people closing ranks and trying to cover up what happened. However, that is easy to say from where I stand. I don't know what environment individual policemen and women were working under. Was it possible to dissent? How much pressure were they under to follow the party line? etc. The only way to get to the truth and to help avoid the same problem occurring in future is for everyone to be open. That's the only way to learn from past mistakes. Individual and system failings must be out in the open. Air crash investigation is usually lauded as being open (except when it concerns RAF helicopters IIRC). if that is the case, then maybe this could be a model for all organisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 That was proven to be a lie about 20 years ago I've not seen any videos of it, but this article claims: Several times both back then and since I have studied the CCTV footage of clearly identifiable Liverpool fans crashing one of the gates into the doomed semi-final. Although in no way unique to Liverpudlians, gate-charging was an already well-established way – long before 1989 – for hooligans to get into big games without a ticket. The illegally forced entry placed an intolerable pressure on that end of the ground – and led to the sickening suffocation of innocent people who did have tickets. While I accept entirely that the Yorkshire police (a) moved at the speed of a snail on valium to do anything about it, and thus (b) displayed all the bravery of a hermit crab trained by Health & Safety, later © doubling their cowardly amorality while trying to fit up innocent fans, I do not accept this lachrymose rubbish about saintly Scousers….any more than I would have turned a blind eye to the criminal behaviour of Mancunians, East London skinheads and Celtic fans during that sorry era. https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/hillsborough-herewith-probably-the-most-unpopular-post-on-the-net-today/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bloom Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) I've no feelings either way for Dukinfield, and although he claims in hindsight he wasn't up to the job, I wonder if anyone was, considering the situation? Were the gates forced like he claimed, or is this another lie? Are any fans going to admit forcing the gates? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-31623413 I've not seen any videos of it, but this article claims: https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/hillsborough-herewith-probably-the-most-unpopular-post-on-the-net-today/ FROM THE HORSES, MOUTH! TODAY! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-31821211 DUCKENFIELD ADMITS GIVING ORDER TO OPEN GATE - FANS DID NOT FORCE GATE, OK? IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU? Apologies to innocent bystanders for the caps - I do know it is shouting and not good etiquette BUT some people don't seem to hear normally, they have a problem. I view perpetuating lies about these victims, such as this, in spite of the truth being made public for some time now, on a par with holocaust denial it is such a loathsome act. If you wish to retain the image of having a shred of human decency, alchesearch, I would suggest that you remove the lie you refer to above. Unfortunately, I did follow the wordpress link and read it, and it is not merely disrespectful of the victims, it is disgusting. I suppose for modern day commentators, wishing to see how the Hillsborough Families still have to endure the suffering of the ignorant, on top of their grief and frustrations, then you've given us a good example. Edited March 11, 2015 by Mr Bloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S6_owl1986 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 wether you want to try and proove a minority of Liverpool fans were responsible or not nothing gets away from the fact the way South Yorkshire Police behaved on that day and subsequently after it was absolutely disgraceful bunch of corrupt liars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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