Hillsborough document release

[taxman]

There is also the existence of that unforgiving pen to consider. It wasn't just the build up of the crowd, but where they went to. The Lep has space for plenty of people, but the design guided them all to the same, small space. No stewards, or police tried to alter that.

 

I had the misfortune of almost ending up in the pen a couple of years earlier. I turned round, went round the back of the stand and stood under the scoreboard.

 

How anyone could design a sporting arena like that is beyond me. That video of the fans exiting the tunnel into the pen is heartbreaking.

 

Just imagine how worse it would have been had certain people got their way and electrified the fences. Master Bates.

[booperstorr]

Reading 'most' of the Police evidence to the inquest suggests that the jury have not a 'cat-in-hells' chance of making sense of the 1989 disaster....the inquest is making lawyers very rich - awakening old 'wounds' for the families - costing taxpayers millions - providing certain politicians the chance to secure more votes in the forthcoming election - totally confusing the jury members with all the issues discussed...(I could go on!!!) and what will be the result?...Duckenfield and Murray were both cleared in a private prosecution for manslaughter (with the judge making legal history by declaring at the start of the trial that even if found guilty custodial sentences would not prevail!!!!..) so even with the current legal stance on 'double jeopardy' they won't take Duckenfield to Court again (Murray is now deceased) not even for perjury... considering the cost, age and memories of witnesses ( with many also deceased ) what would be achieved for the public who are becoming tired of the whole issue ( with apologies to the families for that comment) Let me declare an 'interest' herewith in that I am an ex Det. Sergt.with S/Yorks Police sent to prison for corruption in 1984...BUT no-one knew Duckenfield and most of the others better than I - David D. and I were in C.I.D. together in the 60's and were offered promotion through the Freemason route....I said 'no' on advice from my Dad and David said 'yes'... I carried on chasing villains across Sheffield whilst David avoided any situation that might jeopardize his climb up the ladder...David and I went on holiday together and he came to my wedding plus other family events.(I could tell many tales believe me.!!!..) In the 2 books that I published 'Boopers Tale' (now only available on Kindle) and 'Boopers Prison Tale' (still on Amazon etc.) I made reference to too many 'useless' officers in the 60's and 70's being ONLY promoted due to Freemasonry. Now this is a line followed in the Hillsborough inquest. You would be aghast how many of the senior officers being mentioned at the current inquest were Masons... and I am amazed that the respective legal teams have not pursued how a 'coalition' of masonic senior police officers, under serious pressure with allegations of 'cover-up' etc' reacted. Like most Sheffielders I still think the Liverpool fans should accept 'some' of the blame for the disaster and as I closed the chapter on Hillsborough in my second book... I repeat -"One wonders - yes one wonders if there would have been the same massive ongoing public interest in the disaster if the football team involved had been say.... Leyton Orient, Accrington Stanley or Partick Thistle - one wonders" !!!!

[Vegas1]

Should Duckenfield be gound giilty thus meaning he kept his kob does this not qualify to pay money back through the proceeds of crime acr i.e all expenses?

 

The Proceeds of Crime Act? Behave yourself.

[Athmiester]

Reading 'most' of the Police evidence to the inquest suggests that the jury have not a 'cat-in-hells' chance of making sense of the 1989 disaster....the inquest is making lawyers very rich - awakening old 'wounds' for the families - costing taxpayers millions - providing certain politicians the chance to secure more votes in the forthcoming election - totally confusing the jury members with all the issues discussed...(I could go on!!!) and what will be the result?...Duckenfield and Murray were both cleared in a private prosecution for manslaughter (with the judge making legal history by declaring at the start of the trial that even if found guilty custodial sentences would not prevail!!!!..) so even with the current legal stance on 'double jeopardy' they won't take Duckenfield to Court again (Murray is now deceased) not even for perjury... considering the cost, age and memories of witnesses ( with many also deceased ) what would be achieved for the public who are becoming tired of the whole issue ( with apologies to the families for that comment) Let me declare an 'interest' herewith in that I am an ex Det. Sergt.with S/Yorks Police sent to prison for corruption in 1984...BUT no-one knew Duckenfield and most of the others better than I - David D. and I were in C.I.D. together in the 60's and were offered promotion through the Freemason route....I said 'no' on advice from my Dad and David said 'yes'... I carried on chasing villains across Sheffield whilst David avoided any situation that might jeopardize his climb up the ladder...David and I went on holiday together and he came to my wedding plus other family events.(I could tell many tales believe me.!!!..) In the 2 books that I published 'Boopers Tale' (now only available on Kindle) and 'Boopers Prison Tale' (still on Amazon etc.) I made reference to too many 'useless' officers in the 60's and 70's being ONLY promoted due to Freemasonry. Now this is a line followed in the Hillsborough inquest. You would be aghast how many of the senior officers being mentioned at the current inquest were Masons... and I am amazed that the respective legal teams have not pursued how a 'coalition' of masonic senior police officers, under serious pressure with allegations of 'cover-up' etc' reacted. Like most Sheffielders I still think the Liverpool fans should accept 'some' of the blame for the disaster and as I closed the chapter on Hillsborough in my second book... I repeat -"One wonders - yes one wonders if there would have been the same massive ongoing public interest in the disaster if the football team involved had been say.... Leyton Orient, Accrington Stanley or Partick Thistle - one wonders" !!!!

Great post, I'm going read your books ASAP pal.

[Narden Dee]

Reading 'most' of the Police evidence to the inquest suggests that the jury have not a 'cat-in-hells' chance of making sense of the 1989 disaster....the inquest is making lawyers very rich - awakening old 'wounds' for the families - costing taxpayers millions - providing certain politicians the chance to secure more votes in the forthcoming election - totally confusing the jury members with all the issues discussed...(I could go on!!!) and what will be the result?...Duckenfield and Murray were both cleared in a private prosecution for manslaughter (with the judge making legal history by declaring at the start of the trial that even if found guilty custodial sentences would not prevail!!!!..) so even with the current legal stance on 'double jeopardy' they won't take Duckenfield to Court again (Murray is now deceased) not even for perjury... considering the cost, age and memories of witnesses ( with many also deceased ) what would be achieved for the public who are becoming tired of the whole issue ( with apologies to the families for that comment) Let me declare an 'interest' herewith in that I am an ex Det. Sergt.with S/Yorks Police sent to prison for corruption in 1984...BUT no-one knew Duckenfield and most of the others better than I - David D. and I were in C.I.D. together in the 60's and were offered promotion through the Freemason route....I said 'no' on advice from my Dad and David said 'yes'... I carried on chasing villains across Sheffield whilst David avoided any situation that might jeopardize his climb up the ladder...David and I went on holiday together and he came to my wedding plus other family events.(I could tell many tales believe me.!!!..) In the 2 books that I published 'Boopers Tale' (now only available on Kindle) and 'Boopers Prison Tale' (still on Amazon etc.) I made reference to too many 'useless' officers in the 60's and 70's being ONLY promoted due to Freemasonry. Now this is a line followed in the Hillsborough inquest. You would be aghast how many of the senior officers being mentioned at the current inquest were Masons... and I am amazed that the respective legal teams have not pursued how a 'coalition' of masonic senior police officers, under serious pressure with allegations of 'cover-up' etc' reacted. Like most Sheffielders I still think the Liverpool fans should accept 'some' of the blame for the disaster and as I closed the chapter on Hillsborough in my second book... I repeat -"One wonders - yes one wonders if there would have been the same massive ongoing public interest in the disaster if the football team involved had been say.... Leyton Orient, Accrington Stanley or Partick Thistle - one wonders" !!!!

Do your books contain paragraphs?

[booperstorr]

The only thing that the 'authorities' may consider in respect of Duckenfield is having a go at his pension under Police Pension Regs. ( I lost 75% of my 25 years in 1984 when I got done AND I'M NOT SEEKING SYMPATHY!!) Now they can only take 60% which would go some way to reducing final payout!!!! COMMENT:- My son asked me the other day to buy him a cowboy outfit for Christmas.... - I got him South Yorks Police"......

[Alan Ladd]

In the 60s and 70s the influence of the Masonic Order on public life was huge. Booperstorr is quite right in asserting that it was virtually impossible to rise up the ranks in the Police and other public services unless you were a Mason.

 

I am assured this is no longer the case but the order is still huge throughout the world.

 

If anyone thinks that their influence has been exaggerated take a look at a US banknote, their are numerous masonic symbols.

 

How this relates to Hillsborough remains to be seen, Indeed we will probably never know, but it does appear that influential people closed ranks to protect high ranked officials and only now is the truth coming out.

 

Mr Dukinfield has completed his evidence, I understand that the evidence regarding the subsequent cover up will be next. Despite his faults Dukinfield made mistakes on the spot, the cover up, if there was one, was far more serious.

[booperstorr]

Alan Ladd supports my arguments re Freemasonry and the Police - you raise some good points 1) I would agree that the Masonic influence in the Police is over but now we have a new breed of senior officers - with University degrees - absolutely no common sense and selected from midgets (with apologies to midgets)... years ago you would watch a copper walk by and feel respect - tall, smart, oozing confidence illustrating to the public at large that he was 'the man'... now we see someone like the Met. Police Commander Cressida Dick who is only just tall enough to look out of the windows at Scotland Yard ( and I make no reference to her unfortunate surname)... take the current South Yorks Chief Constable - the Paul O'Grady 'look-a-like'... how he is still in his job having abetted so many disgraceful incidents ( Cliff Richard/ Rotherham child sex allegations etc) is beyond belief 2) I was unaware of the USA banknote allegiance to Freemasons and thank you for that information. 3) I agree with you that the Masonic influence in respect of Hillsborough will probably never be known and/or acted upon!! 4) My old 'friend' David Duckenfield made a decision 'on the spot' regarding the gates being opened (as any other senior officer may have done) but his 'crime' was to lie to the FA representative and find himself facing cover-up allegations. Lets be honest if 2,000 or even 50,000 Liverpool fans had acted in a sensible way approaching the ground with plenty of time and with tickets Duckenfield would not have to had made the fatal decision...why won't some Sheffield 'celebrity' speak out on this issue

[Mecky]

Just imagine how worse it would have been had certain people got their way and electrified the fences. Master Bates.

 

I certainly remember someone and probably the single most defining factor/person in all this, who can no longer face punishment, say something along the lines of "All football fans are animals and should be kept in cages" and "If football clubs can't control their fans, they will be closed down."

[Bludragonfly]

It appears to me that Duckenfield is taking the 'rap' for this disaster I think it is because when it comes to the long awaited payout it will be an individual and not the SYP meaning not much money in the pot.

 

 

Surely Duckenfield was employed as a Police Officer at Hillsborough even if he is taking the 'rap' it is still SYP that will be sued and not him personally.