Hillsborough document release

[Mecky]

Surely Duckenfield was employed as a Police Officer at Hillsborough even if he is taking the 'rap' it is still SYP that will be sued and not him personally.

 

So all policemen on duty that day or the entire force should be held accountable, even if they were stood on Hillsborough corner the whole time? Do you have any idea how officers on duty that day will suffer psychologically for the rest of their lives?

[Mr Bloom]

So all policemen on duty that day or the entire force should be held accountable, even if they were stood on Hillsborough corner the whole time?

 

I don't think the poster is stating or even implying that.

 

 

Do you have any idea how officers on duty that day will suffer psychologically for the rest of their lives?

 

I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Mr Bloom

[Bludragonfly]

Surely Duckenfield was employed as a Police Officer at Hillsborough even if he is taking the 'rap' it is still SYP that will be sued and not him personally.

 

So all policemen on duty that day or the entire force should be held accountable, even if they were stood on Hillsborough corner the whole time? Do you have any idea how officers on duty that day will suffer psychologically for the rest of their lives?

 

 

You have misunderstood my message, as the next message poster pointed out. I meant that it is SYP as the organisation that would be sued.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am saying that Duckenfield was appointed to that role by his Seniors who knew his background, skills, knowledge and experience within his Police career. He did what he was instructed to do - could he have said 'no' to those Seniors? I don't know whether he could or could not have said 'no' however, in hindsight I think he has indicated during his evidence to the Inquest that perhaps he should have said 'no.

 

As a serving Officer, following instructions to be at that match, will be covered by the employers' liability insurance.

 

As for your comment about officers suffering psychologically after that day. I accept that some / many Officers suffered psychologically as a result of that day and many got ill-health retirement pensions as a result. HOWEVER, this was nothing when compared to the suffering of the families of the 96 people who died as a result of the events at Hillsborough that day - no financial pay-off (pension) for them just years and years of pain and suffering

[rossyrooney]

I don't think the poster is stating or even implying that.

 

I believe they are saying that as Duckenfield was acting on behalf of SYP, SYP as an organisation should financially shoulder blame.

 

 

 

I'm not sure where you are going with this.

 

Are you saying that because some officers have suffered psychologically, then they cannot be held responsible/accountable for any part they played in the day, or in preparations for it, or as part of a cover up?

 

Do you know how many officers were pensioned off after that day?

Do you think that fans, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers were able to retire from their jobs on a pension after what they had witnessed and been through that day?

 

Many people have suffered psychologically and financially as a result of that day. Some of these will have undoubtedly been police officers.

 

And for a long time afterwards ...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-27464/Hillsborough-policeman-gets-330-000-payout.html

[esoneulb]

Surely Duckenfield was employed as a Police Officer at Hillsborough even if he is taking the 'rap' it is still SYP that will be sued and not him personally.

That remains to be seen. The police made several mistakes, the first one was opening the gates the previous year, this resulted in a larger number of fans without tickets than usual, does this incriminate whoever was in charge the previous year?

 

Money is the driver here, if an individual gets sued then there wont be much to go round but if it's the whole police force then a bigger cake to slice!

 

When the payout is made Hillsborough will fade in the memory just like Ibrox, Bradford and Heysel.

[Gordonb]

I would assume that the relatives of the deceased will not be looking to sue anyone.

What has always been said in the papers and on TV/Radio is that they want closure of this whole episode and want to know that if there is blame it is laid at the feet of those responsible.

Surely too much time has elapsed for any form of "Compo" to have any meaning.

Only the lawyers will want to pursue any course of compensation as they are the only ones who benefit here and now.

[Vegas1]

I would assume that the relatives of the deceased will not be looking to sue anyone.

 

With 96 families involved you can bet your bottom dollar at least one or two of them will be looking for money.

[Mr Bloom]

I would assume that the relatives of the deceased will not be looking to sue anyone.

What has always been said in the papers and on TV/Radio is that they want closure of this whole episode and want to know that if there is blame it is laid at the feet of those responsible.

Surely too much time has elapsed for any form of "Compo" to have any meaning.

Only the lawyers will want to pursue any course of compensation as they are the only ones who benefit here and now.

 

Oh, that's fine then.

 

Great idea.

 

---------- Post added 23-03-2015 at 09:10 ----------

 

With 96 families involved you can bet your bottom dollar at least one or two of them will be looking for money.

 

Unfortunately, no amount of money will bring back cherished family members and no amount of money can heal the suffering. However, it is the only little thing we can do now, to help to even try to make amends for that day.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Mr Bloom

[boldforester]

In the 60s and 70s the influence of the Masonic Order on public life was huge. Booperstorr is quite right in asserting that it was virtually impossible to rise up the ranks in the Police and other public services unless you were a Mason.

 

I am assured this is no longer the case but the order is still huge throughout the world.

 

If anyone thinks that their influence has been exaggerated take a look at a US banknote, their are numerous masonic symbols.

 

How this relates to Hillsborough remains to be seen, Indeed we will probably never know, but it does appear that influential people closed ranks to protect high ranked officials and only now is the truth coming out.

 

Mr Dukinfield has completed his evidence, I understand that the evidence regarding the subsequent cover up will be next. Despite his faults Dukinfield made mistakes on the spot, the cover up, if there was one, was far more serious.

 

Booperstorr made reference earlier to having been "offered" (along with David Duckinfield) "promotion via the Freemason route". I am curious to know how this would have been done. On the record or off it? Giving sign and countersign over pie and peas in the canteen? A good kicking administered to Birmingham pub bombing "suspects" might do the trick, provided the appropriate trouser leg was rolled up.

Booperstorr should be advised that the likelihood of Partick Thistle being involved in a Cup semi final at Hillsborough is not great, unless we are going back to the Anglo Scottish tournaments of the 70s. Even then, I doubt that crowd congestion would be an issue.

[Alan Ladd]

Booperstorr made reference earlier to having been "offered" (along with David Duckinfield) "promotion via the Freemason route". I am curious to know how this would have been done. On the record or off it? Giving sign and countersign over pie and peas in the canteen? A good kicking administered to Birmingham pub bombing "suspects" might do the trick, provided the appropriate trouser leg was rolled up.

Booperstorr should be advised that the likelihood of Partick Thistle being involved in a Cup semi final at Hillsborough is not great, unless we are going back to the Anglo Scottish tournaments of the 70s. Even then, I doubt that crowd congestion would be an issue.

 

In the late 60/70s there were many more Police forces than now, locally Rotherham Borough, Sheffield City, Barnsley Borough, Doncaster Borough all had Chief Constables, in addition West Riding Police operated in the spaces between these forces.

 

Freemasonry within these organizations was rife, in fact I suspect that it would not be possible to reach senior rank within these forces unless you were "on the square". It was said in regard to Rotherham, that the toilet attendant in the Gents in All Saints Square (a mason) knew more about impending promotions than serving Police officers because they were discussed in the lodge!

 

If you consider Freemasonry to have a corrupting influence on public life , and many do, then you have to concede that Policing was corrupt, and although that influence was waning by the time Hillsborough happened it was still endemic.

 

The motivation to cover up, would have been very strong, indeed virtually impossible to resist. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that many of the men involved thought they were doing the right thing, given the culture they worked and lived in, what they did not realize, and could not be expected to realize, is that by 2015 standards that culture was bent.