Hillsborough document release

[Kersplosh]

I'm a bit worse for ware fella, I'll answer last one, I would really like to know what is going to happen from here also, I think that is on a lot of peoples minds.

 

Like compensation claims running into stupid millions ???

[Halibut]

I understand, to supporters of a certain age, like our selves it does mean more, as a supporter of all home and away games in that era, it could have happened to any of us.

 

Many of the posters you refer to, may have very little knowledge of football at the time, may not be football fans at all, but have based there judgements over the past decades on the media coverage alone.

 

But its clear to all, there are/were so many failings, a cascade of errors and mis management, is one party alone to blame?

 

From ground safety to the Police, who will be the fall guys?

 

As you observe, it was clearly a catologue of errors coming from many different quarters. I suspect that much of the resentment and anger will rightfully go to the police - if not so much for their failures on the day, but their concerted and quite shamefully succesful atttempts to hide the truth and lay the blame at the feet of the dead.

[pattricia]

The worst part was, that many people may still have been alive after 3pm, when they had been pronounced dead. I could never live with myself if I had been a part of that.

[Halibut]

Like compensation claims running into stupid millions ???

 

Stupid millions? I'm no fan of compensation culture and I know damned well that no amount of hard cash can make up for the loss of a loved one - but I think if I'd lost someone I loved due to incompetence and carelessness and then been lied to for the best part of a quarter of a century, I'd be calling for compensation too - if only because it's symbolic of an admission of guilt and at least a token of restitiution.

[Michael_W]

You've missed the most important people. Those who decided that perimeter fencing was necessary to control football fans and those who perpetuated the view that football fans were all violent enemies of the state who should be suppressed at all costs. The second part will be the Thatcher Government. They were the ones who were seeking to introduce ID cards and who set the tone for the police/fans standoffs.

 

The ground was abysmally designed. I've been on the Leppings Lane end in a crush, a couple of years before the disaster. It was terrifying. You walked into the ground and logically headed for the tunnel. This then led to the two fateful pens and the perimeter fence. I was so scared when I went in there, that I turned round and walked out. A truly horrible design, based only upon crowd control, with no regard for crowd safety.

 

Regardless of today's findings about the police and ambulance service. If the ground had been properly designed, the disaster would not have happened.

 

In hindsight most football grounds had the same issues and most police forces treated football fans like cattle, I have been in plenty of grounds where people were packed on terraces like sardines, the Kop at Anfield itself was well known for fans swaying behind the goal. Lots of things combined and culminated in that terrible tragedy at Hillsborough that day.

[*_ash_*]

South Yorkshire police should pay for there actions, perverting the course of justice for a start...

Unlawful killing, gross negligence ???

 

I've been looking through evidence all day - some of the key areas (picked up by the media) don't seem to highlight anything that could be considered gross negligence, or unlawful killing.

 

The parts that were removed were about communication problems and that his serial was down to a quarter strength of what it should have been.

(page 13/17 in below link).

 

He also said "it was a very necessary decision to open gate c" - which was removed.

 

The reasons for these and other parts WERE in fact left in the report (which seems odd). He said in page 14 (hand written and kept in final copy) "During the build up the number of officers in our serial were steadily depleted by officers escorting prisoners through the detention area, so much so that from about 1430 onwards it seemed that there was only myself and PC Wright left directly outside the turnstiles"

 

To the second part about entrance C-

"From my position at the side of this barrier I could see that the crowd pressure was becoming severe. People near the barrier were red in the face and straining to push back. Some fans were panicking. Many were shouting and pleading at us to do something. [...]"

 

 

link

Edited September 13, 2012 by *_ash_*
forgot the link

[*_ash_*]

If powerful people make mistakes, they often get in even more trouble by lying about it and trying to cover it up. At last we see where the blame lays fair and square, on the grubby, dishonest police sneaking about taking blood from dead children and lying about it.

 

You seem to have read a lot about it, yet make some firm comments.

 

Taken from the report:

 

This WAS removed.

"The access for the ambulances onto the pitch was pitifully inadequate. The access was narrow and the angle approach difficult with obstructions on either side which compounded by the number of fans in the area made access to the pitch extremely difficult and hazardous. The ambulance needed to use their sirens and two tone horns simply to get from the arrival area onto the pitch and it was not a safe area for fans or the ambulance."

 

One of many small removals this however was perhaps the worst removal in this case.

 

This is the best find? It's listed in a list of 3 on the BBC.

 

I am yet to find any firm removed comments written by officers sneaking about etc. The way you have written some of your posts is written in the manner of your strong feelings rather than reason, and often in poor taste.

 

I'm surprised none of the nationals haven't found these removals yet. They must have a workforce of more than one, which I have. These of Morley and Huckstepp don't shock me any in manner.

[CorkerSWFC]

You seem to have read a lot about it, yet make some firm comments.

 

Taken from the report:

 

This WAS removed.

"The access for the ambulances onto the pitch was pitifully inadequate. The access was narrow and the angle approach difficult with obstructions on either side which compounded by the number of fans in the area made access to the pitch extremely difficult and hazardous. The ambulance needed to use their sirens and two tone horns simply to get from the arrival area onto the pitch and it was not a safe area for fans or the ambulance."

 

One of many small removals this however was perhaps the worst removal in this case.

 

This is the best find? It's listed in a list of 3 on the BBC.

 

I am yet to find any firm removed comments written by officers sneaking about etc. The way you have written some of your posts is written in the manner of your strong feelings rather than reason, and often in poor taste.

 

I'm surprised none of the nationals haven't found these removals yet. They must have a workforce of more than one, which I have. These of Morley and Huckstepp don't shock me any in manner.

 

For some of us who are obviously not as clued up as you, please tell me in English what You mean, I really would like to know what your views are on today's findings...

[*_ash_*]

For some of us who are obviously not as clued up as you, please tell me in English what You mean, I really would like to know what your views are on today's findings...

 

My view is that I'm glad this is all in the open for me to read. We can now all look at what was really written/removed.

 

There are many posts in this thread which are (in my view) reading headlines and taking them as gospel. The poster earlier though I can't remember who, who said have you read it? then don't comment (or words to that exact effect), cannot possibly have read all the evidence. Nor should they hush people up - that it what started all of this in the first place!

 

Most media is influencing one way or another to a political view, and they won't make sales without sensationalising things - as with ANY topic.

 

I'm going to carry on reading bits, and perhaps make some more comments. I won't spend too much time posting in this thread yet, as I don't think it will last. I'm not wasting my time.

[*_ash_*]

For some of us who are obviously not as clued up as you, please tell me in English what You mean, I really would like to know what your views are on today's findings...

 

As for the two posts where I quoted some evidence, I meant that if THESE particular examples of removal of information for cover up are the most horrific, then it surprises me.

 

I would have thought that either: it would be much much worse, or if it IS much much worse, that the BBC at least (or any nationals) would have found some amongst it to start off with.