Hillsborough document release

[CorkerSWFC]

As for the two posts where I quoted some evidence, I meant that if THESE particular examples of removal of information for cover up are the most horrific, then it surprises me.

 

I would have thought that either: it would be much much worse, or if it IS much much worse, that the BBC at least (or any nationals) would have found some amongst it to start off with.

 

Can I just say I'm not being purposely difficult I am genuinely still looking for the people really to blame in all of this, today has only really told us in a way what we all really knew.

23 years for these documents to come out aswell really is a disgrace, ten years early or not.

[CorkerSWFC]

I will leave it here very shocking feel sorry for the families they are what count now.

 

Sheila Coleman, spokeswoman for the Hillsborough Justice Campaign: "Of course [the apology] is welcome, because it is an acknowledgement that Liverpool, the bereaved families and the fans have been telling the truth for years and yet have been considered liars. Without doubt the inquest verdicts have to be quashed. David Cameron batted this back to the attorney general. The attorney general needs to surely, with the evidence presented to him today and the evidence previously presented to him, must quash the inquest verdicts in all cases. With the clear evidence that fans could have been saved - and the evidence is there - he needs to give all of those 96 victims their right under law, the right to a fair hearing. It needs a full inquiry into how they died."

Edited September 13, 2012 by CorkerSWFC

[*_ash_*]

Can I just say I'm not being purposely difficult I am genuinely still looking for the people really to blame in all of this, today has only really told us in a way what we all really knew.

23 years for these documents to come out aswell really is a disgrace, ten years early or not.

 

The highlighted bold is the very reason why this is difficult.

 

Many of us have posted before in this topic, and many, if not all get closed or removed because discussing something that holds some many emotions for so many people, and in a reasonable manner, is extremely difficult - if not impossible.

 

So far reading the new evidence, my view is still the same as it was at the time. There will be blame issues as long as we all live.

 

The list of things that happened that day (perhaps about 9 things I can count), individually or perhaps 2 or 3, happened at most football matches on a regular basis. On that day, all of them happened, and in a very short space of time, it was inevitable that this (though not to anything like this magnitude) was going to happen.

 

For any fan that used to regularly go to matches in that era, as I did, knew that being penned in like animals could be troublesome in an emergency.

[pottedplant]

Like compensation claims running into stupid millions ???

 

So your the one to put the elephant in the the room - wondered who would.

[Scabbydog]

It’s clear that the police and the politicians have behaved appallingly in this matter.

The police panicked and made the wrong decision, they then; inexcusably; compounded their wrongdoing by falsifying statements and lying.

It would appear that certain politicians colluded in this. Investigations should be made with a view to bringing prosecutions over this potential perversion of the course of justice.

 

However, had the fans who arrived late queued in an orderly manner, the police would not have been forced into making said erroneous decision, therefore the late-arriving fans must also be viewed as having some degree of culpability.

 

The police may well have altered stories which could be a criminal act, but it was after the event and contributed nothing to the loss of life.

 

96 people are dead because:-

 

1 Sheffield Wednesday allowed a match to be played on their ground knowing it to be inadequate and not having the required safety certificate.

2 The FA sanctioned a match to be played on a ground knowing it to be inadequate and not having the required safety certificate.

3 The two teams involved turned up to play a match on a ground known to be inadequate and not having the required safety certificate.

4 Sheffield City Council allowed a match to be played on an unlicenced ground.

 

Had that not been the case there would have been no loss of life.

 

SY police contributed to the tragedy due to their inability to control the crowds and/or through negligence.

SY ambulance service appear to have added to the death toll by inasequate response.

 

After that nothing anyone did added to the loss of life. So cover ups and bogus reports in newspapers are a dispicable side show. The deaths had already occured.

 

If anyone is to be brought to account for the deaths they will be from Sheffield Wednesday FC, Sheffield Council, The FA & the 2 clubs involved.

 

Beyond that the ambulance service, and the police on duty at the time may well have failed in their actions but that was not through deliberate attempt to flout the regulations.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Scabbydog

[F. Sidebottom]

Does anyone know why Sheffield Wednesday didn't have a safety certificate?

Did they never have one for that part of the ground?

Did they have one before but it expired?

If so, when did it expire?

Did the ground have a safety inspection and it failed, or had it just elapsed and wasn't renewed?

Would the ground have passed a safety inspection?

If not, why not?

[liam1412]

Does anyone know why Sheffield Wednesday didn't have a safety certificate?

Did they never have one for that part of the ground?

Did they have one before but it expired?

If so, when did it expire?

Did the ground have a safety inspection and it failed, or had it just elapsed and wasn't renewed?

Would the ground have passed a safety inspection?

If not, why not?

 

The safety certificate was issued in 1979, after which time they made changes that affected the capacity of the stand. The safety certificate was never re-issued with the new capacity limits considered.

[marmalade3]

The police do have to answer for falsifying statements - which they did - and a serving police officer at the time admitted this morning that this happened - falsifying statements is a criminal offence - the police maintain the law - they are not above the law - there is a case to answer.

 

The other issue once again discussed this morning is the matter of the South Yorkshire force at the time being the poodle of Mrs Thatcher's government - their close combined relationship crucially maintained in the face of the miner's strike - now Mrs Thatcher would not have wanted the police force - so important in the breaking of the strike - to come under scrutiny - so blocked any real investigation into their role at Hillsboro'

[mumkin]

Does anyone know why Sheffield Wednesday didn't have a safety certificate?

Did they never have one for that part of the ground?

Did they have one before but it expired?

If so, when did it expire?

Did the ground have a safety inspection and it failed, or had it just elapsed and wasn't renewed?

Would the ground have passed a safety inspection?

If not, why not?

 

As can be seen

 

SWFC Did have a safety certificate at the time of the disaster. Valid or not I don't know

 

121. The relevant local authority at the time was the South Yorkshire County Council. It set up an Officer

Working Party consisting of representatives of the police, the fire service, its own building surveyor's division

and its own legal and administration department. The Working Party made inspections and consulted with the

Club and Dr Eastwood. A Safety Certificate was issued on 21 December 1979 for an indefinite period.

[mossdog]

You've missed the most important people. Those who decided that perimeter fencing was necessary to control football fans and those who perpetuated the view that football fans were all violent enemies of the state who should be suppressed at all costs. The second part will be the Thatcher Government. They were the ones who were seeking to introduce ID cards and who set the tone for the police/fans standoffs.

 

The ground was abysmally designed. I've been on the Leppings Lane end in a crush, a couple of years before the disaster. It was terrifying. You walked into the ground and logically headed for the tunnel. This then led to the two fateful pens and the perimeter fence. I was so scared when I went in there, that I turned round and walked out. A truly horrible design, based only upon crowd control, with no regard for crowd safety.

 

Regardless of today's findings about the police and ambulance service. If the ground had been properly designed, the disaster would not have happened.

When I first attended Owlerton in the 50s with regular crowds of over 45,000 I never witnessed any trouble............which was a good job because there was only one policeman at either end sat on a stool with a flask of tea!

So what has happened to football all these years later? armoured vans full of police placed at strategic points around Hillsborough on Saturday afternoons,pubs shut,and a general air of Beruit or Northern Ireland should give us a clue !

The problem is that the game has been infiltrated by aggressive feral types with animalistic tribal tendancys, generally, but not always of low intellect, who have been brought up with no fear of authority, looking to cause trouble and brighten their sad lives up at the match.

There is now a general witchhunt in progress,and rightly so! but if blame is to be apportioned, some of the above must take equal blame!