Hillsborough document release

[karlo998]

All refer to fans climbing over turnstiles and gaining entry without tickets. 1 statement refered to some fans being ejected for having no ticket.

 

Does that make them a contributory cause of the disaster? I'll leave that to more educated persons than me to judge (as they have already i.e. Taylor)

 

Not "all", just two. So, out of the thousands and thousands of pages in the report you've picked the only two statements that criticise some Liverpool fans, even though we now know it's irrelevant anyway, since fan behaviour had nothing to do with the cause.

[Hots on]

They are on the panels website, there's a search facility on there it's easy to use.

 

Here's a stewards report

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/HOM000001700001.pdf

 

Here's the statement from the head steward on the West Stand, it's in the form of a questionaire that I think all stewards got

 

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000141420001.pdf

 

Just had a quick scroll down the stewards report; question 22 was interesting:

 

Question: Did you eject any supporters from the ground? give time and brief explanation

 

Answer: No, the police ejected a lot from about 1430 onwards, as crowds climbed over turnstiles in steady flow, the officers couldnt cope with the numbers because they were involved oin searching as well (about 2 officers to each turnstile)

[Blue Day]

I've spotted 3 or 4 statements from stewards / turnstile operators that don't put some Liverpool fans in a good light. I haven't read all the statements obviously but the few I looked at seemed to carry a familiar theme that as I understand it the Independant Panel didn't mention in yesterdays report.

 

All refer to fans climbing over turnstiles and gaining entry without tickets. 1 statement refered to some fans being ejected for having no ticket.

 

 

Not "all", just two. So, out of the thousands and thousands of pages in the report you've picked the only two statements that criticise some Liverpool fans, even though we now know it's irrelevant anyway, since fan behaviour had nothing to do with the cause.

 

My 'ALL' reference was to all 3 I had read. Please if you're going to question my post wait until I can answer before continuing with another claiming I'm picking out bad ones.

 

Ive read 4 statements from stewards on the West Stand, one of whom was the head steward. 3 of those statements mentioned fans getting in without tickets. Are there only 3 that mention this?? I don't know because I haven't read them all, as i stated earlier.

[Ms Macbeth]

Lets stop the personal attacks and insults please. We realise that people wish to discuss this topic and that not everyone will have the same opinions. We also realise that the subject is extremely emotive. However, this is a discussion forum, and if people can't debate like reasonable adults then posts will be removed, bans will be issued and the thread may have to be closed or removed.

 

Its up to you.

[Doris Night]

And for those who think this is all a long time ago and we should stop fussing:

 

Not all police officers are guilty of any cover up or guilty of killing the fans. Many are good honest men and women who did their best on the day, they were badly let down by superior officers..

[Hots on]

Lets stop the personal attacks and insults please. We realise that people wish to discuss this topic and that not everyone will have the same opinions. We also realise that the subject is extremely emotive. However, this is a discussion forum, and if people can't debate like reasonable adults then posts will be removed, bans will be issued and the thread may have to be closed or removed.

 

Its up to you.

 

This comes just as steward statements about the bad behaviour of fans are being linked to and discussed.

[myriad]

They are on the panels website, there's a search facility on there it's easy to use.

 

Here's a stewards report

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/HOM000001700001.pdf

 

Here's the statement from the head steward on the West Stand, it's in the form of a questionaire that I think all stewards got

 

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000141420001.pdf

 

I note that while they state they saw some fans entering without ticket they do not even give an estimate of the numbers, it could be as little as two.

 

Anyone who goes to football regularly even now will have seen some fans getting in without tickets, at least for big matches anyway.

 

The Taylor report calculated the number of fans in the Leppings Lane as a whole was not higher than the number of tickets issued.

 

The police failed to establish a cordon on the approach to the turnstiles for checking tickets, despite having done so the year before.

 

They failed to control the crowd entering the stadium and failed to direct them properly into the side pens.

 

Conclusion: ticketless fans was a non factor and can safely be dismissed as even a partial cause of the problems. Just as the HIP concluded then.

[Doris Night]

I note that while they state they saw some fans entering without ticket they do not even give an estimate of the numbers, it could be as little as two.

 

Anyone who goes to football regularly even now will have seen some fans getting in without tickets, at least for big matches anyway.

 

The Taylor report calculated the number of fans in the Leppings Lane as a whole was not higher than the number of tickets issued.

 

The police failed to establish a cordon on the approach to the turnstiles for checking tickets, despite having done so the year before.

 

They failed to control the crowd entering the stadium and failed to direct them properly into the side pens.

 

Conclusion: ticketless fans was a non factor and can safely be dismissed as even a partial cause of the problems. Just as the HIP concluded then.

 

Agreed and not showing a ticket as you enter doesn't mean you haven't got one, it means you didn't show one.

 

As you state the Taylor report showed that the people in the stand was not higher than it should have been. Problem was one section was overcrowded..

[Joe Momma]

You weren't there. The evidence after an exhaustive search through the evidence of those that were there is that you are completely wrong and simply peddling The Sun lies.

 

I lived 200 yds away from Leppings Lane at the time.

 

Saw & heard the whole thing from my bedroom window whilst I was getting ready for work later and ALWAYS had footy on radio (in those days, pre-Jeff Stelling).

When it 'happened' we (& most neighbours) went out to help ... same as anyone would if, say, there was a pile-up outside your house.

 

Horrible day.

 

.... you are completely wrong and simply peddling The Sun lies.

 

And I already said that The Sun (of '89) was wrong.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Joe Momma
addition of last line ...

[Hots on]

I note that while they state they saw some fans entering without ticket they do not even give an estimate of the numbers, it could be as little as two.

 

Question 22 of that stewards report went as follows(my bold):

 

Question: Did you eject any supporters from the ground? give time and brief explanation

 

Answer: No, the police ejected a lot from about 1430 onwards, as crowds climbed over turnstiles in steady flow, the officers couldnt cope with the numbers because they were involved oin searching as well (about 2 officers to each turnstile)