Hillsborough document release

[manceryder]

I have never seen any reports of problems of fans having trouble

getting in at Penistone Road end of the ground.

Were all the turnstiles in working order, did all the fans arrived early.

Perhaps someone who entered the ground from the Kop end could enlighten us

 

I entered the ground from Leppins Lane at about 2.30 there was no queue and no problem. I was with my (then) 9 year old daughter.

 

I had been at a freebie lunch at Hallam Towers and our host had seats for us virtually looking over the Notts Goal. On our way to the ground i commented on the amount of booze that was being consumed by people on their way to the match.

 

When we left the ground about, I guess, 4pm we walked round the back of the stand and out onto the street leading to Penistone Road. Some cops from Doncaster, one of whom I knew, were standing outside the houses protecting them from the Liverpool supporters. Who, he said, had urinated in peoples gardens, damaged property and abused anybody they encountered.

 

My view is that the event was catastophically managed. BUT the Liverpool fans have a case to answer as well.

[Jonny Rotten]

Some right crazy stuff about this on here http://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/179406-hillsborough-disaster-thread-all-in-here-please/page__st__2400

[Jeffrey Shaw]

As for Patnick,we will have to agree to disagree,in a manner of such enormity a trained politician should have made 100% sure of any statement before issuing it.If you consider it a simple mistake then surely you must be shocked by the naivety of the man.

Some questions/answers about Sir Irvine Patnick's role:

1. Did he kill anyone? No.

2. Was he then guilty of any lesser acts capable of triggering criminal liability? No.

3. Was he the source of any lies? No.

4. Did he truthfully repeat untrue statements by the Police? Yes.

5. Was he entitled to rely on statements by the Police and to assume them to be true? Yes.

6. To what extent did anyone rely on the untrue statements that he repeated**? Little if at all.

 

(** as opposed to the statements issued direct by the Police)

Edited September 14, 2012 by Jeffrey Shaw

[alchresearch]

Ex-MP Sir Irvine Patnick apologises for Hillsborough smears

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/81022/ex-mp-sir-irvine-patnick-apologises-hillsborough-smears

 

And here's a link to Patnick's statement:

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000017520001.pdf

 

The bit which upsets me is his conversation with a policeman. The copper allegedly said to him:

 

I picked up a girl she was dead she was in my arms her blouse

was torn she had no bra' on her breasts were exposed when someone shouted

at me throw over here we'll **** her. It was booze that did it-you speak up

for us tell them in Parliament what happened.

 

Another said:

 

Some of the supporters were ****** out of their minds . They were

******* on us while we were pulling the dead and injured out they were

swearing at us kicking and punching us and hampering our work'. One seated

showed me the marks of the kicks on his left trouser leg and the marks on

his skin. Another one informed how the crowd had lifted up a Police horse

how the fans had been crawling beneath the horses and inqiuired if I was

like him and gave them a wide berth I affirmed this

[shaunfl]

On the day I had been out doing some deliveries for a mate, the last drop was in Rotherham at about 2:30 pm and I had to get the van back to Hillsbro' Corner.

My idea was to go along Saville St towards town and then via West Bar out to Hillsbro' to miss the semi traffic. The problem was the rolling car park along Saville St so I crossed over to Carlisle St and that was the same all the way into town.... Who the hell sent the traffic on that route to Hillsbro' ?

Was the idea to keep them in their cars and out of the pub ?

 

I spun round back to Upwell St and on to Herries Rd, it was eerily deserted and I couldn't work out why I was driving the only vehicle on that road, even the last stretch with the ground looming in front of me it was very quiet.

 

I dropped the van off and drove home and was stood at the Penguin bar with my 1st pint as the disaster took place. RIP

[rossyrooney]

Ex-MP Sir Irvine Patnick apologises for Hillsborough smears

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/81022/ex-mp-sir-irvine-patnick-apologises-hillsborough-smears

 

And here's a link to Patnick's statement:

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000017520001.pdf

 

The bit which upsets me is his conversation with a policeman. The copper allegedly said to him:

 

 

 

Another said:

 

Are you making a statement or an assertion?

[rossyrooney]

Some questions/answers about Sir Irvine Patnick's role:

1. Did he kill anyone? No.

2. Was he then guilty of any lesser acts capable of triggering criminal liability? No.

3. Was he the source of any lies? No.

4. Did he truthfully repeat untrue statements by the Police? Yes.

5. Was he entitled to rely on statements by the Police and to assume them to be true? Yes.

6. To what extent did anyone rely on the untrue statements that he repeated**? Little if at all.

 

(** as opposed to the statements issued direct by the Police)

 

Straw clutching at its worst.......the man is culpable,

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Straw clutching at its worst.......the man is culpable,

What, merely because you say so? Please state on what criminal offence you'd charge him.

[rossyrooney]

Some questions/answers about Sir Irvine Patnick's role:

1. Did he kill anyone? No.

2. Was he then guilty of any lesser acts capable of triggering criminal liability? No.

3. Was he the source of any lies? No.

4. Did he truthfully repeat untrue statements by the Police? Yes.

5. Was he entitled to rely on statements by the Police and to assume them to be true? Yes.

6. To what extent did anyone rely on the untrue statements that he repeated**? Little if at all.

 

(** as opposed to the statements issued direct by the Police)

 

Did he spread unfounded lies?...yes

Did he come across in an arrogant,aloof manner whilst doing so? yes

Did he add added weight to the lies on account of being an M.P.?...yes

Did he repeat hearsay without checking the facts?....yes

Did it take him 23 years to apologise?....yes

And just in case you think this is somehow political

 

Does Betts and co. have a lot more to answer to?...yes

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Did he spread unfounded lies?...yes

Did he come across in an arrogant,aloof manner whilst doing so? yes

Did he add added weight to the lies on account of being an M.P.?...yes

Did he repeat hearsay without checking the facts?....yes

Did it take him 23 years to apologise?....yes

That doesn't add up to any criminal offence known to law!