Hillsborough document release

[Darth Vader]

Why should you enlighten me? Because you are suggesting SWFC covered things up. so if you have made that accusation I'd simply like to know where, from the report, you got that. Simple really.

 

I'm not suggesting for a minute the SWFC are without blame.

 

The ground was old - as were many/most grounds of the time.

 

And safety was maintained to a budget - probably set too low.

 

But what I'd like to know is was it just that they had neglected their duties in not maintaining it right, had they got the right paperwork but it wasn't up to date, and did they lie to cover things up afterwards.

 

I've not read anything to suggest SWFC lied to cover things up afterwards.

 

Others suggest they have.

 

If that is the case, where have they read this?

 

"The Club denied knowledge of any

crowd-related concerns arising from the 1987 or 1988 FA Cup Semi-Finals."

 

page 11

page is numbered as page 7

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/report/HIP_report.pdf

Edited September 15, 2012 by Darth Vader

[Sir Enoch]

what get me is why is there footage of fans pushing and trying to force the doors but suddenley they didnt do anything theres pages in that report we wont see but i bet one thing some pages dont say the fans are innocent

 

I think the reason that the report exhonerates the behaviour of the fans, is to try to make up for previous slurs (The Sun). I think it was an unfortunate serious of events that unfolded on the day that culminated in a horrific disaster.

 

For me the true cause of the loss of life on that fateful day is the presence of fences. If the fences were not there, yes, people would have spilled onto the pitch but people with not have been crushed. The fences had been erected in grounds up and down the country due to years and years of crowd disorder. The biggest testament to the people who lost there lives in 1989, is that today going to a football match is a totally different experience (no fences, all seaters, a lot safer).

 

Inadequate planning, poor decision making and lack of communication by the police obviously had a massive impact on the day. However the fans who turned up late, for whatever reason, whether they had had a drink or not, knowingly or unknowingly, did play a part in the disaster. Unfortunately it is human nature that if fans are outside a ground and kick off is fast approaching, the focus of the fans is simply to get inside the ground. This is applicable to many fans outside many grounds, especially in the 70s & 80s. The TV footage outside the Leppings Lane entrance clearly demonstrates this phenomenon.

[lazarus]

have you had your eyes shut and your fingers in your ears for 23 years?

 

Traffic problems on the M62 caused lateness

It isn't unusual for fans to travel without tickets in the hope of being sold one outside the ground, or at least take part in the atmosphere and celebrations

 

So their coaches were stuck in the White Bear at Ecclesfield and in various pubs in and around the city?

[ukdobby]

So their coaches were stuck in the White Bear at Ecclesfield and in various pubs in and around the city?

 

And yes fans do travel withhout tickets and as we can see from the footage on tv many of theses were climbing over the gates,I,ve said before many of the Scousers helped cause this but will never be blamed as people don't want to upset them,Clegg for one has junped on the bandwagon.

[LeMaquis]

For me the true cause of the loss of life on that fateful day is the presence of fences. If the fences were not there, yes, people would have spilled onto the pitch but people with not have been crushed.

 

Without the presence of fences a lot fewer would have been killed but the main cause was the failure of police control, especially the decision to open the gates and allow fans to pour into the central pen.

[LeMaquis]

was the panel really independent?

 

Have a look for yourself http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2012/09/12/who-are-the-members-of-the-hillsborough-independent-panel-100252-31815017/.

 

However you seem to have already made up your mind so I'll point out the panel was made up of people from different backgrounds including an ex-copper, solicitor, journalists, medial officer, academic, et al.

[LeMaquis]

Sensible comments from Natjack.

It was a terrible tragedy that overtook many people ,but in the broadest sense it was an accident in that no one intended harm .

 

It being an accident is neither here nor there. It was a failure of police control followed by a cover-up.

[Eater Sundae]

Without the presence of fences a lot fewer would have been killed but the main cause was the failure of police control, especially the decision to open the gates and allow fans to pour into the central pen.

 

Had there been no fences and pens, there would have been no deaths.

[monkey104]

A lot of people would agree with that, but as them people have now been officially told they're totally blameless, that never going to happen.

 

It reads on here that a lot of people have deep issues against the police, and if the verdict of this 'independent' panel had gone the other way, they'd still be arguing against it. To me and a lot of others this report smacks of let's try and give them what they want, draw a line and move on. Some people are going to have to fall on their swords to achieve this. It was a catalogue of errors from start to finish, but no-one set out to make what happened happen. There's got to be room for some understanding and mercy somewhere. So long after the events this just seems like a witch hunt.

 

We can only wish these families peace, love and healing, that they can now grieve and move on with their lives, let their loved ones rest in peace. For the sake of their own karmic health, if nothing else.

 

Thank goodness someone has said it. From the way it has been reading this past week the fans had no involvement whatsoever and only the police, SWFC, and the ambulance service are to blame.

To be honest I was to the point thinking that if none of the fans are to blame who did all the pushing.

Yes the cover up by SYP following the incident is reprehensible and heads must roll but the fans must be in some way held accountable.

[oldprune]

everyone i spoke too has got the same opinion as this

 

It pretty much sums it up. History is to be airbrushed and football hooliganism never existed. The football grounds needlessly errected barriers to stop pitch invasions that never happened at all. Hysel Stadium was a figment of our imagination.

 

Isn't it odd to think that if folk hadn't imagined all those thugs and hooligans the barriers wouldn't have been there at Hillsborough and folk would have escaped death and injury buy spilling over onto the pitch?

 

I'm very pleased that sports such as cricket and rugby never imagined the hooligans and therefore never thought of errecting barriers to cage them.