Hillsborough document release

[Joe Totale]

..... the fans pushing from the back had no tickets and were fuelled with drink.....

 

Should the Liverpool supporters outside the ground who forced their way in to an already full ground, carry some responsibility?

 

Was there actual evidence of this?

SYP, SWFC and Sheffield City Council seem to be the actual culprits.

[natjack]

...read the reports starting at the original Taylor report to last week's. They will tell you that the fans didn't force their way into the ground and that the primary cause of the disaster was a failure of police control, in particular the decision to open a gate and let fans swarm into the middle pen without any control.

Of course they will, that's been the whole point of the exercise from day one, hasn't it? Like a lot of things, keep keeping on until you get the result you want.

 

They have the answer they wanted all along, now they should concentrate on healing themselves. And this time, I don't mean the families of the tragically deceased.

[monkey104]

Was there actual evidence of this?

SYP, SWFC and Sheffield City Council seem to be the actual culprits.

 

Why? were they doing the pushing?

[rad]

Mod note: Threads merged and re-opened.

 

Please keep it civil folks.

[irenewilde]

It pretty much sums it up. History is to be airbrushed and football hooliganism never existed. The football grounds needlessly errected barriers to stop pitch invasions that never happened at all. Hysel Stadium was a figment of our imagination.

 

Isn't it odd to think that if folk hadn't imagined all those thugs and hooligans the barriers wouldn't have been there at Hillsborough and folk would have escaped death and injury buy spilling over onto the pitch?

 

So true. And it needs saying.

[irenewilde]

Inadequate planning, poor decision making and lack of communication by the police obviously had a massive impact on the day. However the fans who turned up late, for whatever reason, whether they had had a drink or not, knowingly or unknowingly, did play a part in the disaster. Unfortunately it is human nature that if fans are outside a ground and kick off is fast approaching, the focus of the fans is simply to get inside the ground. This is applicable to many fans outside many grounds, especially in the 70s & 80s. The TV footage outside the Leppings Lane entrance clearly demonstrates this phenomenon.

 

Yes, some people might have got what they wanted from the release of these documents but a lot didn't and still feel resentful that what they saw and experienced that day appears to be being ignored.

[irenewilde]

I wish the families the peace within them to do that, and let their loved ones rest in peace. As for the rest, who are apparently blameless, they still have to live with their own consciences.

 

Even now though, they don't seem to want peace. When on earth are they ever going to stop with this...

 

"The group is now looking at three avenues to follow up. They are urging the attorney general to apply for new inquests, demanding full and immediate investigations into criminal prosecutions and, where appropriate, applying for civil proceedings to be reopened."

[pottedplant]

I've never once thought when I've been at a match that I was 'entrusting' my safely to the police. Do you? Especially in the time when this all happened, the whole thrust was containing the hooligan element not ensuring its safety. As a kid at the time, and seeing it unfold on TV, but now an adult, I doubt I would have taken a child into that environment anyway.

 

We all feel sorry for the families, but if we're going to have the 'truth' let's have the whole truth and nothing but the truth, it might make uncomfortable reading for some, but it's the only right way. And if the report verdict had turned out differently, would you still be agreeing with it?

 

My karmic health is fine, I don't spend my time ill wishing people who went to work and were caught up in a maelstrom not of their own choosing like some of you. I wish you peace and healing, brother.

 

You put this very eloquently.

[sharkster]

Most of the fans were not drunk.

Most of the fans had tickets and did not arrive late.

There were 6 out of date turnstiles for about 25 thousand people.

The senior police officer ordered an exit gate to be opened which Lead straight to the middle pen which was full.

The police on the pitch ignored the fans who were saying there were problems in the pens.

The police stopped ambulances going onto the pitch to help, one ignored them and went anyway.

41 of the 96 dead could have been saved.

The police altered statements to try and cover up their **** ups.

The police told lies about the supporters to the tabloids to try and make out it was the supporters fault (which some ignorant people still believe).

The families have now had the truth, they now want justice.

[pottedplant]

If you've attended matches and not realised that you were putting your personal safety in the hands of the police, then I can only presume that you have a limited sense of awareness or have only attended boys or Sunday league matches.

 

Who is this 'we all'? Who are you speaking for?

 

We have had the truth. An independent panel went through thousands of pieces of evidence over a period of 18 months. Do you know something that they don't? Can you bring some new evidence to the table that will make mockery of their findings? If so, please share it. And while you're at it, if you could tell me where I've wished ill to any of our public servants or officials who were jointly responsible for 96 deaths of the innocent, please feel free to share that too.

 

I'm sorry that the truth does not fit in with 'your view' of things. It must be quite vexing, as your 'aura' is showing.

 

I think the problem is that we have had differing version of the truth over the last 23 years - and it can hardly be surprising that people question the independence of a panel which was headed up by the Bishop of Liverpool.