Hillsborough document release

[mikem8634]

Sorry Darth I can't as you know literally thousands of statements were taken and was just going through them very adhocly to try and get an idea of various viewpoints. I can remember one was from a 15 year old liverpool fan.

 

To be honest I think its one of those situations that was a perfect storm scenario, poor policing, disgruntled fans due to ticket allocation issues, lack of communication when the doors were opened to ensure stewards were present to direct fans; metal pens which the government insisted football clubs installed.

 

Is any group more responsible for the events than any other, I would say no. I'm desperately sorry about those that were involved in the disaster and completely understand their desire to see 'justice'. However there wasn't any particular person or group that is responsible.

 

I believe the latest report is a political whitewash whose sole intent was to completely absolve liverpool fans of any blame.

 

So you can provide no evidence to back up your point of view but you can dismiss an entire report's worth of evidence with the sweep of a brush.

[mikem8634]

You both appear to be in some sort of denial about bad behavior of some of the Liverpool fans.

 

The police failed to control what exactly, a large crowd of well behaved people??

 

The police failed to control a football crowd, like any other.

[mikem8634]

Not Read all the Thread , But would like to mention alot of sheffield folk around the ground opened there homes for fans and there familys , serving cups of tea, and just being there for the fans , a good sheffield spirit i think. and ive not herd that much said about that in the press .

 

Well said.

[Hemibr]

Ultimately - if you are a friend or relative of one of the dead then whoever is responsible is irrelevant as your only complaint avenue is to the police.

 

If you saw drunken behaviour - you,d inform the police. If you were aware of forged tickets or ticketless fans, - you'd inform the police, - If you had been there on the day and seen events with potential to cause harm to your friends or relatives then your only recourse would have been to inform the police.

 

To that end you would expect them to deal with anything that presented and they didnt.

 

Two police women have died recently - do we blame the grenade manufactures ? The arms suppliers ? the bloke who pulled the trigger is an obvious but there are questions as to how this situation was allowed to develop.

 

Anyone who saw it developing then the only recourse is to the police on whom we are meant to trust and leaving the tragedy aside its still a bit unnerving that there are grenades in the community at all - used or not.

 

They (police) are a government body with unlimited resources to deal with unprecedented situations. Ask any miner.

 

For the aggrieved at liverpool they do not have an access to anyone but the police to police their or anyone elses fans - they trusted the police with that task and presumably had an expectation of the police.

 

When something fails there is a compensation culture for victims of that failure. Brakes went - sue the garage, flagstone broke - sue the council.

 

When mob rule takes over then policing has failed

 

If a new report came out tomorrow saying that the fans were entirely to blame then the onus would still be on the police to explain why no charges were brought against the offenders.

 

If my kids left a football match in a coffin then i think i might be inclined to seek some accountability and if the police have evidence against the fans then why wasnt it processed in the normal way ?

 

Anyone know where i can access any of the released documents containing police signatures ?

[Darth Vader]

 

Anyone know where i can access any of the released documents containing police signatures ?

 

That might prove difficult. Former Constable, Martin McLoughlin said earlier this week that the witness statement he provided had been altered and that there was no signature on the statement.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Darth Vader

[sanman]

So you can provide no evidence to back up your point of view but you can dismiss an entire report's worth of evidence with the sweep of a brush.

 

Read through the statements and find them yourself. I don't think anyone has provided links to individual statements to try and prove a point either.

[karlo998]

I believe the latest report is a political whitewash whose sole intent was to completely absolve liverpool fans of any blame.

 

 

And you have provided no evidence for this whatsoever. You're claiming the report was a "whitewash"- which is a very serious allegation. Luckily, because you have absolutely nothing to back up what you say, your views can safely be discounted as without any base of truthfulness.

[karlo998]

Read through the statements and find them yourself. I don't think anyone has provided links to individual statements to try and prove a point either.

 

NO!

 

You made the claim, you do not demand that others find the evidence to back it up.

 

You made the claim, you provide the evidence or withdraw the claim.

[karlo998]

So you can provide no evidence to back up your point of view but you can dismiss an entire report's worth of evidence with the sweep of a brush.

 

And then demand that we find the evidence he claims exists. Priceless.

 

"The report is useless, the evidence is out there but you have to find it!"

 

 

Ridiculous.

[sanman]

And you have provided no evidence for this whatsoever. You're claiming the report was a "whitewash"- which is a very serious allegation. Luckily, because you have absolutely nothing to back up what you say, your views can safely be discounted as without any base of truthfulness.

So lot's of people on here have given first hand accounts of what happened and the role that 'the' fans played in the events. But because some report is published by an 'independent' committee chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool all those people are wrong and we blindly accept the report.