Hillsborough document release

[Suffragette1]

I agree that various authorities, including SYP have brought shame on Sheffield. And then yesterday, to add insult to injury, we read in the papers and saw on the news that SYP failed to act in the child sexual exploitation/abuse cases in the Rotherham area, along with other agencies.

 

I do believe though, that it is up to the families themselves to decide what to do next, and it is neither our decision, nor place to make. Whatever path they choose will mean further heartache, they have to do what they feel they have to.

 

I believe that we're in a transitional period. As with most policies/laws/doctrines/ideologies etc every action is an extreme reaction to a previous action; let's hope that eventually we will learn from our mistakes and strike an honest middle ground where the handwringing liberals and apologists don't scream 'racist' every 5 minutes, nor accuse anyone who thinks that some of the LFC fans should accept some responsibility for what happened that day of blaming the victims for their demise. I do not envy the authorities one iota as they're damned if they do and damned if they don't, however, principles and laws have to be applied equally across the board. The 70s and 80s were typified by institutional racism and whilst I do not doubt that is still does exist, to a much lesser degree, the solution is not to turn to a blind eye to crimes that are committed by certain racial/cultural groups. By the same token, the actions of the hooligan element within football of the era tainted the entire fan base and as the report states, the policing of football matches was seen through the 'lens of hooliganism'.

 

I do believe that there is some cause and effect relationship between both cover-ups, although the motives behind the two are diametrically opposed. The aftermath of Hillsborough was a huge wakeup call in political terms and the accusations that SYP had smeared an entire group of football supporters based on the actions of a problematic minority has had far reaching consequences, where they are now painstakingly trying to do the absolute reverse, in a misguided belief to be seen to not being prejudiced against a certain group, but in the process have allowed perpetrators to continue and failed countless young girls.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Suffragette1

[mikem8634]

So now MacKenzie wants an apology and recompense from South Yorkshire Police!

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/former-sun-editor-kelvin-mackenzie-1344852

 

At least Kelvin has been good enough to let us all know who the real victim has been this last 23 years.:loopy:

 

Truly shocking and insulting. Is it not the responsibility of a journalist to check the veracity of a story before declaring it to be 'The Truth'?

[marcster]

What I don't understand is that the report as far as I know say's that drunkenness was not a fact in what happened but I was in Hillsborough shopping that day and there were drunken Liverpool fans everywhere I looked in Hillsborough and a group of fans were so drunk that they thought I was a Liverpool fan despite me having a local accent and asked if I had any spare tickets.

[Birds]

At least Kelvin has been good enough to let us all know who the real victim has been this last 23 years.:loopy:

 

Truly shocking and insulting. Is it not the responsibility of a journalist to check the veracity of a story before declaring it to be 'The Truth'?

 

To be fair to KM, What better source could there be than the police and an MP?

[Lockjaw]

What I don't understand is that the report as far as I know say's that drunkenness was not a fact in what happened but I was in Hillsborough shopping that day and there were drunken Liverpool fans everywhere I looked in Hillsborough and a group of fans were so drunk that they thought I was a Liverpool fan despite me having a local accent and asked if I had any spare tickets.

 

Hiya marcster.

 

Have you ever seen drunken fans at any other matches? If so, did 96 people get crushed to death?

[mikem8634]

To be fair to KM, What better source could there be than the police and an MP?[/quote

 

He CHOSE to report allegations as truth. At best that is lazy journalism at worst it is embelamatic of a trend in journalism for the ruthless pursuit of sales regardless of integrity. Was it fair to continue to promote the lies for 23 years including an attempt to shift the blame on to a Liverpool news agency? Was it fair to refuse to apologise until he was left with no choice?

 

The man has no grace, no integrity and no place in public life.

[Lockjaw]

Wow, ignorance is persistent. I am getting tired of challenging rubbish like this. All concerned have had 23 years to prove the allegations against Liverpool fans and not only have they failed but they have seen those fans fully vindicated.

 

Lies need fools to believe them. Cover-ups need the gullible to prosper.

 

How is the view from Kelvin Mackenzie's pocket?

 

These are classic symptoms of being in denial. What genuinely puzzles me, though, is why they're in denial.

 

A friend suggested to me, yesterday, that it could be a reaction to the fact that people jumped on the Sun / SYP bandwagon in a way similar to those who seek conspiracy theories after major disasters because they are unable to accept that bad stuff sometimes just happens and that, now the bandwagon has lost its wheels, they are unable to adjust their thinking.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Lockjaw

[mikem8634]

What I don't understand is that the report as far as I know say's that drunkenness was not a fact in what happened but I was in Hillsborough shopping that day and there were drunken Liverpool fans everywhere I looked in Hillsborough and a group of fans were so drunk that they thought I was a Liverpool fan despite me having a local accent and asked if I had any spare tickets.

 

The report said alcohol was not a factor (not fact). Yes some fans had a drink, yes some were drunk - just the same as every other football match ever. Nobody is saying every Liverpool fan was sober. It has been proven that despite isolated incidents no doubt witnessed on the day the fans did not cause the tragedy.

[Kidorry]

The report said alcohol was not a factor (not fact). Yes some fans had a drink, yes some were drunk - just the same as every other football match ever. Nobody is saying every Liverpool fan was sober. It has been proven that despite isolated incidents no doubt witnessed on the day the fans did not cause the tragedy.

 

Who pushed the unfortunate people down the terrace?

[mikem8634]

Who pushed the unfortunate people down the terrace?

 

The crowd were mismanaged by an incompetent policing strategy. This was then covered-up for 23 years. Do you really think that apologies would have been forthcoming from Cameron, Mackenzie, Bettison et al if they could have avoided it? The evidence is rock solid.

 

Look, the truth is you don't want the real answer to your question. If you are intelligent enough to post then you are intelligent enough to have sought out the facts for yourself. If you genuinely are craving assistance and clarity then I will happily point you towards the Hillsborough Independent Panel report but I fear that little other than a time machine would change your mind. Therefore, it seems that your question is designed solely to provoke.

Edited September 27, 2012 by mikem8634