Hillsborough document release

[LeMaquis]

You might find it interesting to Google the semi-finals at Hillsborough in 1981, 1987 and 1988...

 

The person in overall charge at those semis wasn't the same person who was in charge in 89 i.e. Duckenfield. Duckenfield was only put in charge of the 89 semi shortly before the match was due to take place. It was his inexperience that was the major cause of the disaster. He may yet face charges for manslaughter owing to the decision to open the gates and let fans stream in uncontrolled.

[Gazza58]

The person in overall charge at those semis wasn't the same person who was in charge in 89 i.e. Duckenfield. Duckenfield was only put in charge of the 89 semi shortly before the match was due to take place. It was his inexperience that was the major cause of the disaster. He may yet face charges for manslaughter owing to the decision to open the gates and let fans stream in uncontrolled.

 

Putting duckenfield in charge shortly before the match was indeed one of many mistakes,opening the gates obviously proved to be another.if i had been in duckenfields shoes i honestly think i would have done the same.reason being to avoid people getting killed outside.The main problem was not shutting the gate to the central pen.

[LeMaquis]

The behaviour of certain English football clubs fans through the seventies and eighties, especially Liverpool fc, necessitated those dreadful penns; the Justice campaign need to have a long hard think about that.

 

I think if South Yorkshire police, Sheffield Wednesday Football club, the engineers who designed and built the stadium and Sheffield City Council are to be investigated then I think those badly behaved fans should be too, its only right.

 

There are a couple of hundred Liverpudlians who should reproach themselves for that day.

 

Shhhhhh ......... don't mention things like that it's not pc, anyone remember the Wednesday fans getting slashed at Anfield in 1984 ? The scousers were notorious for it back then !

Here is a clip of Hull City fans taunting SYP at Hillsborough last week, of course if the coppers had responded heavy handedly they would have gone crying to the media !

 

 

Those trouble makers included Wednesday fans. Remember Oldham in 1980? Read it here, from a Wednesday fans' forum; http://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/159719-6-septmebr-1980/

 

"Curren fouled Stainrod; he went down like he'd been shot; Curren gets sent off and then all hell breaks loose, with bricks, concrete and anything else the fans could lay their hands on being hurled onto the pitch. The game got stopped for a long time whilst Big Jack pleaded for calm. I don't recall the final result but think we lost... Home fans then banned from Hillsborough (standing only i think) for 4 games as a penalty and completely banned from away matches?

 

The behaviour of fans of a lot of clubs pre-Hillsborough (Man Utd, Newcastle, Millwall, Chelsea and others had far worse reputations than Liverpool) doesn't detract from the main causes of the Hillsborough disaster - a failure of police control coupled with an inadequate stadium. All your whinging about Liverpool fans isn't going to alter one jot all the litigation that's going to come.

[TAT]

The behaviour of certain English football clubs fans through the seventies and eighties, especially Liverpool fc, necessitated those dreadful penns; the Justice campaign need to have a long hard think about that.

 

The supporters role on the day may be a minor factor in the days events, but the policing, stewarding and state of the stadium all had a bigger role.

 

Am sure many other stadiums were not up to scratch in that era, but the pictures of rusty bent, broken "crush barriers still lives with me. the Fences at the front that would not give way, (yes like many other stadiums).

 

The emergency services, access to the ground and facilities to enter the stadium.

 

The Police cover ups and failure to control the events on the day.

 

The bottom line is, there should have been more crowd control and direction to other areas of the Leppings lane end, and the facilities should have been more suitable to cope with an emergency, i.e more exits, better stewarding and better crush barriers.

 

You keep blaming the fans if it makes you feel better, just dont forget the other major factors.

[Gazza58]

I was at that oldham game,there was never gunna be any loss of life,but i accept incidents such as that played a part.but hysell played a major part in getting the barbaric pens installed.

[LeMaquis]

Putting duckenfield in charge shortly before the match was indeed one of many mistakes,opening the gates obviously proved to be another.if i had been in duckenfields shoes i honestly think i would have done the same.reason being to avoid people getting killed outside.The main problem was not shutting the gate to the central pen.

 

They should never have opened those gates. What they should have done is police the fans outside the ground, making sure they got in through turnstiles and were sent into the outside pens. There were very few coppers outside at 3pm. Opening the gates was mistake number one. Not directing the fans who all streamed in together into the outside pens was mistake number two. An orderly, controlled entrance with stewards making sure fans went right or left would have avoided a crush.

[Michael_W]

You might find it interesting to Google the semi-finals at Hillsborough in 1981, 1987 and 1988...

 

Indeed and all brought up in hindsight, nobody had considered the consequences of 'serious overcrowding', not at Hillsborough or anywhere else, pens and fencing were commonplace at football grounds back then and safety certificates were pieces of paper.

Too many people entered the central pens due to a loss of crowd control and poor monitoring, the reasons crowd control was lost was due to a number of factors including the number of fans turning up in the time up to kick off and insufficient turnstiles to cope with them.

[LeMaquis]

I was at that oldham game,there was never gunna be any loss of life,but i accept incidents such as that played a part.but hysell played a major part in getting the barbaric pens installed.

 

Really? I was in the Leppings Lane pens in 1982, 3 years before Heysel. I was in pens at FA Cup games at Elland Road in 1980 and at White Hart Lane in 81. Pens started in English football well before Heysel and as a reaction to hooliganism including pitch invasions (Newcastle v Forest in 74).

[Darth Vader]

Indeed and all brought up in hindsight, nobody had considered the consequences of 'serious overcrowding', not at Hillsborough or anywhere else, pens and fencing were commonplace at football grounds back then and safety certificates were pieces of paper.

Too many people entered the central pens due to a loss of crowd control and poor monitoring, the reasons crowd control was lost was due to a number of factors including the number of fans turning up in the time up to kick off and insufficient turnstiles to cope with them.

 

Wrong. It was brought up time and time again, to the club, to the FA, by fans and by police, but it was ignored.

[LeMaquis]

Too many people entered the central pens due to a loss of crowd control and poor monitoring, the reasons crowd control was lost was due to a number of factors including the number of fans turning up in the time up to kick off and insufficient turnstiles to cope with them.

 

You forgot the decision to open the gate which was big cause number one. As for crowds turning up in time for kick-off, when do you expect them to turn up? After the final whistle? The day before the match? They turned up then because that's when all fans turn up if they can. Proper stewarding and policing could have dealt with this. That's what the role of stewards and police is.

 

Since when has insufficient turnstiles been cited as a major contributory factor to the disaster? Had there been a reduction in the number of turnstiles from previous years? If the police and stewards had been outside the ground they could have controlled people. Putting the kick-off back 15 minutes would have helped.