PeteMorris Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I think that you are being a little over-sensitive to the subject, but I agree there are some posts which border on insulting. People do this when the argument is slipping from their grasp. I'm not sure. I don't know if the poster was trying to compare you to the BNP and Neo-Fascists, or the news organisations who have run with the story. Either way it is not relevent to the thread, and doesn't answer the subject. +1 for that comment. Quite apart from my fundamental stance that I just think it's plain 'wrong' to have cameras in there. I'm firmly of the opinion that, if there is even one opportunity for for something to be 'misused' then it most likely will happen. This goes for lots of other things besides this particular subject. You may of course draw the conclusion that I'm tarring everyone with the same brush! Which on reflection could be right. But lets not put temptation there in the first place is my view, then we can't get it wrong. (BTW Stomp..good luck with your interview!...from your other thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missymoo73 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 hmmm this is a tough one really. Some good points made each way but I have to say I would feel uncomfortable if they were in my childrens school. Not sure why they would feel it necessary to do this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 hmmm this is a tough one really. Some good points made each way but I have to say I would feel uncomfortable if they were in my childrens school. Not sure why they would feel it necessary to do this ? How do you know they're not? (eeeeeeek!!!!)...Sorry...I couldn't resist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missymoo73 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 How do you know they're not? (eeeeeeek!!!!)...Sorry...I couldn't resist! I thought thye had to inform us if they were - dont get me going !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I thought thye had to inform us if they were - dont get me going !! Hahaha..sorry...I'm not quite sure what the regs on it are! Personally I would 'expect' to be informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Quite apart from my fundamental stance that I just think it's plain 'wrong' to have cameras in there. I'm firmly of the opinion that, if there is even one opportunity for for something to be 'misused' then it most likely will happen. The thing is that the toilet facilities are already being misused. Would you have a problem if a teacher was stationed in the most troublesome facilities? Would you have a problem if a caretaker / cleaner was fixing a loose tap while the facilities are still open? Would you have a problem with using unisex toilets (as an adult, I don't believe them to be appropriate for children)? What measures would you accept to make the use of CCTV [covering entrances and communual areas like sinks] acceptable (e.g. footage encrypted with the Police holding the keys)? Nobody is suggesting the use of CCTV to cover toilets / urinals / showers / changing areas. Do you feel the regulations for CCTV and toilets should be different for schools and other public spaces, even though children may use those other facilities (e.g bus / train station)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 A massive storm in a teacup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 The thing is that the toilet facilities are already being misused. So how would a camera, assuming it's not pointing at cubicles stop toilets from being blocked or broken or whatever? Would you have a problem if a teacher was stationed in the most troublesome facilities? I can see where this is going. I wouldn't expect someone permanently stationed in there no! Would you have a problem if a caretaker / cleaner was fixing a loose tap while the facilities are still open? Any caretaker, with half a brain would do it out of hours, or if it was an emergency close the use of the facility while fixing something Would you have a problem with using unisex toilets (as an adult, I don't believe them to be appropriate for children)? I don't see it as appropriate for children either What measures would you accept to make the use of CCTV [covering entrances and communual areas like sinks] acceptable (e.g. footage encrypted with the Police holding the keys)? Nobody is suggesting the use of CCTV to cover toilets / urinals / showers / changing areas. I have already stated my position in this regard. I don't see it's necessary, wherever it's pointing Do you feel the regulations for CCTV and toilets should be different for schools and other public spaces, even though children may use those other facilities (e.g bus / train station)? No I have no objections to cameras in other places, but not in toilets, and especially in schools. As this thread is about cameras within school toilets, the wider question is academic See my bold (I get fed up of all the bracketing to address each point as a quote!...Sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The thing is that the toilet facilities are already being misused. So how would a camera, assuming it's not pointing at cubicles stop toilets from being blocked or broken or whatever? It means that if you know what time frame the toilets were broken, you can also find out who used the facilities in that timeframe. If cameras also cover the sink areas, it will also prevent damage to sinks, mirrors and often handdryers. With bullying it provides proof as to who was in the toilets after and complaints are made. An old tactic used in my school years ago was for the bullies to simply deny that they were anywhere near the toilets at the time, and then it simply became one person's word against another's, which in turn makes incidents go unreported. Would you have a problem if a teacher was stationed in the most troublesome facilities? I can see where this is going. I wouldn't expect someone permanently stationed in there no! Right, so no staff allowed to monitor unruly behaviour, or cameras. Do you have any suggestions as to how the vandalism / bullying that these spaces attract can be reduced? Would you have a problem if a caretaker / cleaner was fixing a loose tap while the facilities are still open? Any caretaker, with half a brain would do it out of hours, or if it was an emergency close the use of the facility while fixing something At my school the caretaking staff would often do minor repair work during lesson time, with the facilities still open, provided it didn't affect the use of said facilities (so if there was only one sink and that needed unblocking, the toilets would be closed, but where there were four sinks, they'd stay open). Likewise, they didn't shut the whole toilet block down just because a couple of cubicles needed some new toilet paper. Would you have a problem with using unisex toilets (as an adult, I don't believe them to be appropriate for children)? I don't see it as appropriate for children either Which is why I asked you about how you feel with using them as an adult. Do you feel the regulations for CCTV and toilets should be different for schools and other public spaces, even though children may use those other facilities (e.g bus / train station)?No I have no objections to cameras in other places, but not in toilets, and especially in schools. So a camera filming the entrance to a set of toilets in a bus station is ok? As this thread is about cameras within school toilets, the wider question is academic It's not though, because if we say that cameras filming the entrances to toilets in a school is an invasion of privacy, then we must also apply that to other areas. If the issue is child protection, then we must also apply the same rules wherever children may be expected to use those facilities. What about sports centres, especially those which share facilities with a school. Do they need different requirements for the CCTV coverage depending on what classes are booked in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llamatron Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 hmmm this is a tough one really. Some good points made each way but I have to say I would feel uncomfortable if they were in my childrens school. Not sure why they would feel it necessary to do this ? bullying of course. Maybe the divide here is between people went to a school where bullies ruled the roost and people that didn't? maybe this is the origin of girls going to the toilets in packs actually, less likely to get your head kicked in when there are loads of you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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