MrSmith Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 This is not about Gordon Brown; it’s about the definition of Bigotry and how a bigot’s intolerance would manifests its self. Bigotry Intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself: How would this intolerance manifest its self? I’m going to use Garden Brown as an example, whilst talking to an lady she asked about immigration, for which he called her a bigot behind her back. To me he demonstrated some intolerance towards her because of her opinion on immigration. Quote: Intolerance, unwillingness to accept views, beliefs, or behaviour that differ from one’s own: To me this made him the bigot and not her; If I am wrong please explain why so that I can use the word correctly in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I’m going to use Garden Brown as an example, whilst talking to an lady she asked about immigration, for which he called her a bigot behind her back. To me he demonstrated some intolerance towards her because of her opinion on immigration. This assumes he didn't actually agree with her, and was calling her a bigot because he didn't want to accept her opinion. He could be 100% in agreement with her, but still believe that she is a bigot and label her as such. I would also say that he didn't demonstrate intolerance, because he didn't just spit in her face and walk off after she started talking, he waited until he was out of the area and in private before discussing his opinion of her. On the other hand, she quite happily revealed her thoughts in public and in front of the national media. GB only did this by accident when he forgot rule #1 of radio mics "DONT SAY ANYTHING YOU SHOULDN'T UNTIL YOU KNOW ITS TURNED OFF". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Disagreeing with an opinion (and/or identifying the holder of that opinion as a bigot due to that opinion) is not showing intolerance. People routinely disagree with the opinions of others, to label everyone who will not agree with any stated opinion as a bigot renders the word meaningless. Edit - you are wrong in believing that he was being intolerant, thus you are wrong in saying that he is a bigot. 1 : unable or unwilling to endure 2 a : unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters b : unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights He wasn't unable or unwilling to endure her opinion, nor did he attempt to stop her expressing it (and it wasn't religious in nature). He labelled her because of her opinion (probably correctly) and he was rather two faced about it since he did it behind her back (but then again only to himself as far as he knew at the time). The definition of bigot that you are looking at is too simple This is a better one a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance You'll note that in this definition bigotry is defined as being an attitude applied to a group of people, not generally to individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I would say that you cannot be bigoted against a persons opinion, actions, mode of dress, whatever. You can be bigoted against someone if you use a criteria that fits that person's and is of no relevance to judging them on the critera that you are passign judgement on. For example, "I don't like that person because they play loud music" Fair enough. Late at night that's a problem "I don't like that person because they are Jamacian" (and the implicit assumption is that Jamacians always play reggae late at night while doing pot). That's bigotry. "She can't possibly dig that garden herself, that's mans work" Bigotry on the basis of sex. "She can't possibly dig that garden herself, she's in a wheelchair" It might be tactless to say, but it's true she probably cannot dig a garden up with a spade. Simply disagreeing with someone for not accepting their beliefs however, if you have good reasons to believe otherwise is not bigotry, at least not how I understand it. I'd also probably have to say that you don't have true bigotry until you have an element of hatred towards the group - until then I'd probably call it intolerance if there was no clearly defined hatred, but that's possibly getting a little deep atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Disagreeing with an opinion (and/or identifying the holder of that opinion as a bigot due to that opinion) is not showing intolerance. People routinely disagree with the opinions of others, to label everyone who will not agree with any stated opinion as a bigot renders the word meaningless. Edit - you are wrong in believing that he was being intolerant, thus you are wrong in saying that he is a bigot. He wasn't unable or unwilling to endure her opinion, nor did he attempt to stop her expressing it (and it wasn't religious in nature). He labelled her because of her opinion (probably correctly) and he was rather two faced about it since he did it behind her back (but then again only to himself as far as he knew at the time). The definition of bigot that you are looking at is too simple This is a better one You'll note that in this definition bigotry is defined as being an attitude applied to a group of people, not generally to individuals. So the definition and correct use of the word bigot appears to be down to which dictionary you use to look up its definition and because I used the Oxford online dictionary which claim to be the most trusted dictionary in the world and you used the Merriam Webster dictionary I am wrong. Using the definition you posted how that would be applied to determine that the lady with concerns over immigration is a bigot. It appears from your post that GB wasn’t a bigot because he wasn't unable or unwilling to endure her opinion, yet she is a bigot because of her opinion, why doesn’t she have to be unable or unwilling to endure someone’s opinion before being described as a bigot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWOL Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I am only intolerant with people who I know are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 So the definition and correct use of the word bigot appears to be down to which dictionary you use to look up its definition and because I used the Oxford online dictionary which claim to be the most trusted dictionary in the world and you used the Merriam Webster dictionary I am wrong. No, it's your misunderstanding of what intolerant means that is the real problem, I just think that the OED online definition of bigot is rather lacking in detail. Using the definition you posted how that would be applied to determine that the lady with concerns over immigration is a bigot. Perhaps if you could post what she actually said we can examine that. It appears from your post that GB wasn’t a bigot because he wasn't unable or unwilling to endure her opinion, yet she is a bigot because of her opinion, why doesn’t she have to be unable or unwilling to endure someone’s opinion before being described as a bigot. I can't say for sure that she's a bigot, I don't remember exactly what she said (it was about 3 years ago after all). I seem to remember at the time that I agree with GB though. If you can post what she actually said though I can explain how I form an opinion from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 It appears from your post that GB wasn’t a bigot because he wasn't unable or unwilling to endure her opinion, yet she is a bigot because of her opinion, why doesn’t she have to be unable or unwilling to endure someone’s opinion before being described as a bigot. In Mr Browns view at that time, yes. This doesn't, however really have any bearing anything much. It's quite possible to have concerns about immigration and not be a bigot. It's equally possible to have concerns about immgration and be thoroughly bigoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 If you can post what she actually said though I can explain how I form an opinion from it. What she said included something along the lines of; "All these East Europeans.Where do they all come from?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Sometimes bigot is wrongly applied to people who are simply ignorant of the facts, and do not understand. I guess the term bigot can be applied to someone who in spite of facts being spelt out to them, wilfully thinks that one group of people are inferior to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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