Tory Chief Whip 'Plebgate' Thread

[I1L2T3]

Thanks for posting that link, good read.

 

There was a hell of a lot of people who hookednto the "pleb" word, it was like a divine gift for them and they revelled in stoking it up for their own political ends. Can't wait to see them all apologise when it's shown they were all had, though I see they are all trying to shift the story to avoid admitting they got it wrong (I1L2T3 is a prime example above, apparently now it's OK for the police to lie because that's what politicians do).

 

As I already mentioned I don't think the use of the pleb word is that important. The points about the incident that Mitchell and the police agree on are still massively damaging to Mitchell and cast doubt on his personality and suitability to be in senior public office.

 

The enquiry into the possible conspiracy we have to wait for the outcome. As I already mentioned I think the major significance with the email is how it was used within the Tory ranks.

 

As for it being ok for the police to lie I'm not saying it is but making an observation about how silly it is for one big group of liars to be arguing with another big group of liars and then getting precious about it.

[WeX]

Thanks for posting that link, good read.

 

There was a hell of a lot of people who hooked onto the "pleb" word, it was like a divine gift for them and they revelled in stoking it up for their own political ends. Can't wait to see them all apologise when it's shown they were all had, though I see they are all trying to shift the story to avoid admitting they got it wrong (I1L2T3 is a prime example above, apparently now it's OK for the police to lie because that's what politicians do).

 

don't count on it, if anything is certain its the childishness of these people. you see it every day in their posts, using silly changes of words that would be the hight of satire on the school playground.

 

like their political masters they will never admit fault, they see it as a sign of weakness. its a shame though as accepting when you are wrong is one of the strongest things you can do.

[vinyl]

As I already mentioned I don't think the use of the pleb word is that important. The points about the incident that Mitchell and the police agree on are still massively damaging to Mitchell and cast doubt on his personality and suitability to be in senior public office.

 

The enquiry into the possible conspiracy we have to wait for the outcome. As I already mentioned I think the major significance with the email is how it was used within the Tory ranks.

 

As for it being ok for the police to lie I'm not saying it is but making an observation about how silly it is for one big group of liars to be arguing with another big group of liars and then getting precious about it.

 

On the contrary it seems to be emerging that Mitchell was ambushed on this. He may have muttered a swear word under his breath as he admits but that's hardly different from anyone's reaction if they were subject to a contrived incident designed to achieve just that.

As everyone now seems to be admitting the original police reports were over egged and words like pleb inserted and this being backed up by fabrications from non-witnesses and the whole thing starts to take on a sinister feel.

It looks like there will be serious repercussions over this, and probably the police commissioner will lose his knighthood. The head of the police federation has already stepped down early.

 

As for you condoning the police lying because other do. That’s like saying that they should be allowed to rob banks because others do.

There are clearly those who’s politics will not allow their minds to accept what has happened here, but that won’t stop a miscarriage of justice being exposed and many heads in the police service rolling.. and rightly so.

 

As for the pleb word not being important. It's very odd that it is precisely that word that Miliband and the others latched on to for their political points scoring, which presumably is why it was included in the first place. What a pity that it appears the only ones using it were the police. I wonder when the humble pie will start to be eaten.

Edited December 23, 2012 by vinyl

[Jeffrey Shaw]

The copper is getting stitched up by the establishment. No doubt whatsoever in my mind.

But isn't it the Police who are tying to stitch up 'The Establishment'?

And aren't the Police part of that selfsame 'Establishment'?

[Eater Sundae]

As I already mentioned I don't think the use of the pleb word is that important. The points about the incident that Mitchell and the police agree on are still massively damaging to Mitchell and cast doubt on his personality and suitability to be in senior public office.

 

The enquiry into the possible conspiracy we have to wait for the outcome. As I already mentioned I think the major significance with the email is how it was used within the Tory ranks.

 

As for it being ok for the police to lie I'm not saying it is but making an observation about how silly it is for one big group of liars to be arguing with another big group of liars and then getting precious about it.

 

It depends on the circumstances in which they are lying. The police lying can result in miscarriages of justice and innocent people being falsely imprisoned.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

It depends on the circumstances in which they are lying. The police lying can result in miscarriages of justice and innocent people being falsely imprisoned.

But, until lately, it could be assumed that all police tell the truth all the time. Sadly, we now learn that this just isn't so.

[I1L2T3]

don't count on it, if anything is certain its the childishness of these people. you see it every day in their posts, using silly changes of words that would be the hight of satire on the school playground.

 

like their political masters they will never admit fault, they see it as a sign of weakness. its a shame though as accepting when you are wrong is one of the strongest things you can do.

 

Maybe use the PM system if you want to discuss other posters in a derogatory way.

 

Or just respond directly to their posts.

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2012 at 14:32 ----------

 

It depends on the circumstances in which they are lying. The police lying can result in miscarriages of justice and innocent people being falsely imprisoned.

 

I agree. I'm not condoning the police actions if they have stitched Mitchell up. I'm very clear about that in earlier posts. I think we should wait for the outcome of the enquiry.

 

As I said though I think the major significance of the email is how it was used by other Tories against Mitchell. He also had to submit his own request for the CCTV even though it had been viewed by the cabinet secretary.

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2012 at 14:37 ----------

 

But, until lately, it could be assumed that all police tell the truth all the time. Sadly, we now learn that this just isn't so.

 

To be fair I think everybody knows that the police are far from perfect. I think it's also fair to say that confidence in the police is low amongst sections of society and has been for a long time.

 

That said there is a very important line that has been crossed with senior politicians expressing a lack of confidence in the police. For me that is one of the worst things about the whole episode.

[Mecky]

I watched the point made on the news tonight about how the issue has been transformed from a petty argument about the use of the word, "Plebian," into an argument where name calling had become shoved to the back. Let's not lose sight of the fact of the point, mentioned earlier in this thread and by the newscaster on TV tonight, that the actions of the Minister were totally unacceptable and he should have known better.

[Obelix]

I'd find your argument much easier to accept if you didn't call people names all the time Mecky. You really should stop throwing stones in your glasshouse.

 

Someone muttered a few imprecations when asked by overzealous officers to inconvenience himself. That's hardly a hanging offence. Who was disturbed by this? The police or the crowds of non existant spectators?

[I1L2T3]

Someone muttered a few imprecations when asked by overzealous officers to inconvenience himself. That's hardly a hanging offence. Who was disturbed by this? The police or the crowds of non existant spectators?

 

He became angry at and swore at police officers. He's admitted it. Not a usual thing to happen is it? If a Labour politician had done what Mitchell has admitted to then you'd be asking serious questions. We all would.

 

How do you know the police were being over-zealous. Perhaps they had specific operational instructions at that time.

 

The police never said in the log book that there were crowds. They said several members of the public.

 

Having watched the CCTV footage again and looked at online photos of the Downing Street gates there is something very important to note. I think possibly four police officers were present. Two inside the main gates, and two just outside the main gate but inside the smaller set of outer gates. What did the other two see and hear? It will be interesting to find out.

 

The 'Andrew Mitchell Show' gets more interesting by the day.