Tory Chief Whip 'Plebgate' Thread

[Good mood]

When all said and done two police officers have been arrested over this incident and Andrew Mitchel hasn't.

[I1L2T3]

As I understand it he didn't swear directly at the officers, he sweared under his breath, which the police are generally quite tolerent of; its when you aim the swearing directly at them they have you.

 

I havn't been following this thread but has anyone stated a good reason as to why he was prevented from cycling through the gates?

 

Could be any number of reasons. Looking at google images of Downing Street gates there seems to be officers stationed both in front of and behind the main gates. Usually a total of four officers. It could be that there is a procedure where the main gate opening has to be coordinated between the two sets of officers. Maybe the ones on the outside were otherwise engaged. Maybe the officers had been told not to open the main gates for operational reasons.

 

At the end of the day the officers were in charge of the gates, not Mitchell.

 

A few questions I have:

 

1. Were there legitimate operational reasons for not opening the gates?

2. If there were could Mitchell have known the reasons?

3. I think there were four police officers on the gates. Where is the account from the other two officers? Did they log it?

4. Was the incident logged by one officer outside the gates and one officer inside the gates? If so it's Mitchell's word against FOUR officers, not two.

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2012 at 23:46 ----------

 

When all said and done two police officers have been arrested over this incident and Andrew Mitchel hasn't.

 

No. One police officer has been arrested and one member of the public has been arrested.

[Obelix]

As I understand it he didn't swear directly at the officers, he sweared under his breath, which the police are generally quite tolerent of; its when you aim the swearing directly at them they have you.

 

I havn't been following this thread but has anyone stated a good reason as to why he was prevented from cycling through the gates?

 

Downing Street is part of the Queen's Highway and as such is open to all. The only law that the police can use to prevent access is that they have a reason to suspect there is likely to be a public order offence[1] Do the police really think that the Chief Whip was going to create a public order issue? Especially as the other side of the gates was empty at the time and no crowd was present?

 

[1] According to Ian Blair. I mean he could have been wrong on that but the head of the Met should know something about it.

[I1L2T3]

Downing Street is part of the Queen's Highway and as such is open to all. The only law that the police can use to prevent access is that they have a reason to suspect there is likely to be a public order offence[1] Do the police really think that the Chief Whip was going to create a public order issue? Especially as the other side of the gates was empty at the time and no crowd was present?

 

[1] According to Ian Blair. I mean he could have been wrong on that but the head of the Met should know something about it.

 

So the gates are there to protect Downing Street against drunkards and the like? Mitchell had been on a long lunch I guess.

 

It seems more likely that they are there for more heavy duty security reasons. They're guarded by armed police.

[Obelix]

Having been inside them I know exactly what the *apparant* security is. (I suspect that the real security is a bit more serious) I also know that apart from a possibilities of a public order offence the police have no buisness stopping anyone walking up them. What they should do, if they think it's serious enough is apply to the beaks to have the road taken into private ownership, but they have this tiresome habit of defending public rights of way at times....:-)

[I1L2T3]

Having been inside them I know exactly what the *apparant* security is. (I suspect that the real security is a bit more serious) I also know that apart from a possibilities of a public order offence the police have no buisness stopping anyone walking up them. What they should do, if they think it's serious enough is apply to the beaks to have the road taken into private ownership, but they have this tiresome habit of defending public rights of way at times....:-)

 

Not a great defence for Mitchell is it, that the street is a public highway. He knows why the gates and the police are there. They are there to protect him and other people who need to work in Downing Street.

 

If you had armed officers employed for your safety would you go out of your way to annoy them? And then spend months developing a media and political campaign to annoy them even more?

[Good mood]

Not a great defence for Mitchell is it, that the street is a public highway. He knows why the gates and the police are there. They are there to protect him and other people who need to work in Downing Street.

 

If you had armed officers employed for your safety would you go out of your way to annoy them? And then spend months developing a media and political campaign to annoy them even more?

 

Your interpretation of this incident is very warped; you're looking at it through your tory-hating specs I think.

[Obelix]

Not a great defence for Mitchell is it, that the street is a public highway. He knows why the gates and the police are there. They are there to protect him and other people who need to work in Downing Street.

 

If you had armed officers employed for your safety would you go out of your way to annoy them? And then spend months developing a media and political campaign to annoy them even more?

 

If they decided to make it awkward for no reason (remember he's cycled through the gates many times before) then I'd be annoyed yes, and I'd tell them so, as I've done before.

[I1L2T3]

Your interpretation of this incident is very warped; you're looking at it through your tory-hating specs I think.

 

It's warped to say that Downing Street gates are there for security?

 

I think I'm one of the few on here actually sticking to the facts. You had it wrong about who had been arrested didn't you?

 

---------- Post added 24-12-2012 at 09:07 ----------

 

If they decided to make it awkward for no reason (remember he's cycled through the gates many times before) then I'd be annoyed yes, and I'd tell them so, as I've done before.

 

Well, it's an unanswered question whether or not there was a good reason not to let Mitchell through isn't it? I'd like to know the answer.

 

That said even if the police were being officious then it is still very bad form for a senior government minister to swear at them.

Edited December 24, 2012 by I1L2T3

[puisseguin]

Your interpretation of this incident is very warped; you're looking at it through your tory-hating specs I think.

 

Even Tory haters aren't falling for this hogwash. Well not the rational ones anyway.

 

"Keith Vaz, Labour chair of the Commons home affairs committee, has claimed that a “robust, transparent and comprehensive investigation” is needed into the affair.

 

He called on Mr Hogan-Howe to provide his committee with an explanation of how information about the altercation entered the public domain and why the Downing Street police log “appears to conflict with CCTV evidence”.