quisquose Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 On the contrary, no I don't, as, by definition, a 'miltant' is 'Having a combative character; aggressive, insulting etc', and, if a particular atheist happens to be 'Having a combative character; aggressive, insulting etc', then, said atheist is a militant one. We don't need to know his/her name etc, an atheist behaving militantly, is, by definition, a 'militant atheist'. (Similarly, a stamp collector behaving militantly, would be a 'militant stamp collector'). But we all behave in a combative, aggressive or insulting manner on occasion. You're being quite combative here, which I think is cool, and doesn't deserve a 'militant' label. You're also quite happy with the 'militant atheist' label, which I think is quite insulting to atheists, but doesn't in turn deserve a 'militant' label. So please, some specific examples, for the purpose of rational debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I have just now directly called you a militant muslim following repeated occasions when you have called me, and many others on this forum, militant atheists. I have just now decided to erode the double standards which you clearly employ, by using your own reasoning on yourself. You have passionately argued your position on this forum, you have by your own standards shown an intolerance of atheists. I don't think that this is a worthwhile way to use the word 'militant' at all as I, and flamingjimmy & six45ive, have explained, so if you can refrain from calling us militant atheists then I won't suggest that you are a militant handyman. I have nothing to be militant about regarding my religion, you are taking my 1st post on this thread as directly aimed at you for some reason. I consider myself a moderate Muslim, yes I can be a bit militant if someone is being abusive/goading/offensive or comes out with the "I have the right to be offensive" crap. I do not wish to get into an argument about the word militant as I'm sure I have explained why I use the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 But we all behave in a combative, aggressive or insulting manner on occasion. You're being quite combative here, which I think is cool, and doesn't deserve a 'militant' label. You're also quite happy with the 'militant atheist' label, which I think is quite insulting to atheists, but doesn't in turn deserve a 'militant' label. So please, some specific examples, for the purpose of rational debate. As I've said before, I don't view someone dissagreeing, debating or arguing against a pov as being militant. If, in contrast, rather than simply using rationality to debate against a pov/person, they proceed to taunt, goad and insult that person, then they are being, militant. If you understand the term 'militant' to mean something different, then we need to sort that out, before proceeding further, don't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) I'd say anyone who behaves in a 'militant' fashion, whether atheist or christian/muslim/other believers would be militant The word militant is both an adjective and a noun, and is usually used to mean vigorously active, combative and aggressive, especially in support of a cause If we're going to go by definitions, I'd put more trust in an established dictionary than Wikipedia... Definition of militant adjective favouring confrontational or violent methods in support of a political or social cause: the army are in conflict with militant groups noun a militant person: militants became increasingly impatient of parliamentary manoeuvres The only part of that which can apply to an atheist in the way you mention, is "confrontational", which applies to anyone in any debate, which renders the term pointless. Anyone debating anything, is confronting an issue, ergo it is confrontational. I think atheists who just stick to debating with facts and reason usually escape the 'militant' tag- whereas those who taunt, ridicule and aggressively insult those who disagree with them, tend to get labelled as militant. See above. Actually, i find the term both meaningful and useful- it serves to distinguish the standard atheist i.e. one who simply lacks belief in God, from the (increasingly common, post-Dawkins) type of atheist who attacks religious believers, not through simple rational discussion, but by means of insults and inflammatory rhetoric. According to the dictionary definition above, my simply questioning a theist's beliefs makes me a "militant" atheist. Even though I haven't attacked anyone, as is your definition. Edited September 28, 2012 by RootsBooster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 If you understand the term 'militant' to mean something different, then we need to sort that out, before proceeding further, don't we? See previous post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I have nothing to be militant about regarding my religion, you are taking my 1st post on this thread as directly aimed at you for some reason. I consider myself a moderate Muslim, yes I can be a bit militant if someone is being abusive/goading/offensive or comes out with the "I have the right to be offensive" crap. I do not wish to get into an argument about the word militant as I'm sure I have explained why I use the word. No, I am taking your repeated use of the term 'militant atheist' on this forum over many threads. Many here have noted how frequently you have used it in a derogatory manner, more so than anybody else. The double standards you have employed in this manner has been quite evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I have nothing to be militant about regarding my religion, you are taking my 1st post on this thread as directly aimed at you for some reason. I consider myself a moderate Muslim, yes I can be a bit militant if someone is being abusive/goading/offensive or comes out with the "I have the right to be offensive" crap. I do not wish to get into an argument about the word militant as I'm sure I have explained why I use the word. The link you gave which was supposed to explain why you use the term, actually had a majority of definitions going against what you believe, see post #59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 As I've said before, I don't view someone dissagreeing, debating or arguing against a pov as being militant. If, in contrast, rather than simply using rationality to debate against a pov/person, they proceed to taunt, goad and insult that person, then they are being, militant. If you understand the term 'militant' to mean something different, then we need to sort that out, before proceeding further, don't we? The debate is not about the definition of the word 'militant', but about the relevance of attaching it to the word 'atheist'. This is why some specific named examples would be useful to back up your arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 No, I am taking your repeated use of the term 'militant atheist' on this forum over many threads. Many here have noted how frequently you have used it in a derogatory manner, more so than anybody else. The double standards you have employed in this manner has been quite evident. My Bold= I have yes and it's been in response to militancy by others, it's not double standards it's the way I am ie show respect get respect or show disrespect and expect it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I call them militant atheists, not all of them though just the ones who resort to insulting religion/religious beliefs. Some say religious people are intolorant but some militant atheists can be very intolorant themselves like the one other day (Doris Night) who posted a post with a supposed drawing of the Prophet Mohammed and stated this is my drawing of the Prophet or the ones who started all the does god threads at the weekend. On the other hand there are also atheists on here that are the exact opposite so I think the word militant instead of angry in the title would be more appropiate. The link you gave which was supposed to explain why you use the term, actually had a majority of definitions going against what you believe, see post #59 This is my 1st post on this thread without a link, the one with a link came after and was a bit of a clanger. Trust me to link to a pro-Atheist site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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