onewheeldave Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 So not only is onewheeldave still keen to promote the narrower definition of atheist, he has also admitted that he actually places himself firmly in that category to prove that such atheists do exist. To promote it as being as valid as your preferred defintion. i.e. I'm actually promoting, not substituting your definition with a 'narrower' alternative, but, in contrast, promoting the fact that both definitions are valid. Which, if you think about, is even 'broader' than you, with your insistence on just the one It would be good if could now convince me why I should lose my agnosticism. I've no desire to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 A totally different argument that I'm not going to get involved in. But that's the argument you clearly setup: However, clearly an atheist who believes God doesn't exist, is in a different category to one who doesn't believe in God- the first is making a positive claim (God doesn't exist), the second is making no claim. In your argument above, neither is making a claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) So not only is onewheeldave still keen to promote the narrower definition of atheist, he has also admitted that he actually places himself firmly in that category to prove that such atheists do exist. Proof is not necessary, it's a fact that there are atheists who consider 'atheist' to mean 'believes God does not exist'- at least 2 have posted on this thread, and, you may recall this thread with it's poll showing that the majority of respondees believed that 'atheist'='The belief that there is no God ' http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1034412&highlight=atheism&page=31 it's a safe bet, I think, that at least some of them were atheists? Edited October 2, 2012 by onewheeldave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 But that's the argument you clearly setup: No it's not. In your argument above, neither is making a claim. Yes they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 No it's not. Yes they are. OK. Show where an atheist who believes there is no god, is claiming god or gods do not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Concerning opinions- I have some, and you have some- clearly we differ. What you consider to be a 'fact', I, and others, may, and in fact do, dissagree with your assessment. You for example, seem to consider it a fact that 'atheist' means , exactly, and only, 'lacks belief in God'. Whereas many, me included, consider that to not be a fact, as we know that it can also mean 'believes god does not exist'. So, we do not acknowledge your 'fact' as a fact. If you offered valid proof for it, I would change my mind, but, what you have offered thus far, does not convince me. So, the reality is, that we dissagree, and, however much you continue to post your opinion as fact, it will not make it a fact- unless you produce the convincing proof.... 'Believes God does not exist' is a subset of 'lacks belief in God', unless of course you can think of a way in which someone who believes God does not exist can also somehow have a belief that God exists. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 'Believes God does not exist' is a subset of 'lacks belief in God', unless of course you can think of a way in which someone who believes God does not exist can also somehow have a belief that God exists. jb I know it's a subset- what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 OK. Show where an atheist who believes there is no god, is claiming god or gods do not exist. Like I said before- A totally different argument that I'm not going to get involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 But it's not a different argument. You claimed in your argument "an atheist who believes God doesn't exist...is making a positive claim (God doesn't exist),..." So show me how an atheist "who believes God doesn't exist" is making a positive claim that a god doesn't or cannot exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) But it's not a different argument. You claimed in your argument "an atheist who believes God doesn't exist...is making a positive claim (God doesn't exist),..." So show me how an atheist "who believes God doesn't exist" is making a positive claim that a god doesn't or cannot exist. It seems to me that onewheeldave is backtracking here, that his preferred narrower definition is now exactly the same as the wider definition. Edited October 2, 2012 by quisquose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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