RootsBooster Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 The "apple pie gang" comes into mind now,i think i deserve a break. As vice president and holder of the biscuit cupboard key, I can tell you that "Marx" is not and never has been a member of the Apple Pie gang. Nor is he in the Dream Team, NWO, The Grahame-proclaimed Satanists, or any other real or fictional group that I may or may not be part of (or be accused of being part of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 For Christs sake, who in Gods name CARES ??????????????????? ..about angry atheists? Janie does, aparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 The type of people I described are clearly 'militant atheists' though- 'Anti-theist' is a useful term, for those of us who know what it means, but as I also endeavour to communicate with the general public, I also feel 'militant atheist' is useful, as the term is in more common usage. I have no issue with the term 'militant believer' being applied to believers who are aggressive or try to force their beliefs on others either: in short, I have no problem with applying the term to anyone who is being 'militant', whether atheist, believer, man or goat You could call somebody a "militant non-stamp-collector" if you want, and it's meaningless. Somebody might be militant about "something" and happen to non collect stamps, but it's the "something" that adds value to any description not the irrelevant lack of interest in a hobby. Furthermore, when I try to think of real life examples of the religious intolerance you attribute to human behaviour, which is unfortunately all too real and widespread, all I get is somebody of a different religious persuasion. If you do want to persist with the concept that "militant atheist" has meaning, rather than just the general ad-Hominen against atheism in general which is what I think it is, then you're going to have to spoon feed me some specific names and examples of what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Actually, i find the term both meaningful and useful- it serves to distinguish the standard atheist i.e. one who simply lacks belief in God, from the (increasingly common, post-Dawkins) type of atheist who attacks religious believers, not through simple rational discussion, but by means of insults and inflammatory rhetoric. This post hits the nail on the head of what I mean by militant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 You could call somebody a "militant non-stamp-collector" if you want, and it's meaningless. Somebody might be militant about "something" and happen to non collect stamps, but it's the "something" that adds value to any description not the irrelevant lack of interest in a hobby. Furthermore, when I try to think of real life examples of the religious intolerance you attribute to human behaviour, which is unfortunately all too real and widespread, all I get is somebody of a different religious persuasion. If you do want to persist with the concept that "militant atheist" has meaning, rather than just the general ad-Hominen against atheism in general which is what I think it is, then you're going to have to spoon feed me some specific names and examples of what you mean. This may explain why I use the term militant= http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Militant+Atheist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 OK, let's have a look at those "arguments" then and raise a few points... Shall we rewrite the first one then? It makes it easy to show how ridiculous sounding it is. A militant non-smoker is one who is hostile towards people smoking in the same room as them. They differ from moderate non-smokers because they have the desire to propagate non-smoking and also hold smoking to be harmful. Militantly not smoking was an integral part of the French Revolution, Soviet Union, Cultural Revolution, and is expresses itself today in the ideas of people who don't smoke. Militant non-smoker: All smoking does is cause many health issues. Blah! Blah! Blah! Let's have a look at the remainder... Believer or Agnostic: You're a militant atheist! What about all of the soup kitchens, hospitals, charities, and orphanages run by beleivers? What about all those that are run by atheists? (implied assumption that atheists cannot be charitable.) Are you forgetting about that? Also, did you not take into consideration all the violence and persecution that occurred under the militant atheistic policies under the Soviet Union or Cultural Revolution? And again, what about the Crusades for a starter? (implied assumption that only atheists can be violent etc and religious people cannot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 This may explain why I use the term militant= http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Militant+Atheist Yes, it's in the urban dictionary because militant Muslims like yourself have repeated it often enough. It's still meaningless to anybody that is not intolerant of atheists. See what I did there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fake Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 That still has nothing to do with your saying Richard Dawkins (and others) views on religion have nothing to do with atheists having a duty to point out the failings of religion. Some atheists (like Dawkins) may have opinions on religion, which he is perfectly entitled to, but that doesn't mean atheists, by default, have to have those same opinions. Although he does not state "duty" he implies it in his writing as do other prominent atheists. Perhaps me saying duty was wrong but I do feel that's what he means. Some quotes by him and other prominent atheists. He has said that the publication of The God Delusion is "probably the culmination" of his campaign against religion. Revealed faith is dangerous because we have all bought into a weird respect, which uniquely protects religion from normal criticism. Let's now stop being so damned respectful! Dawkins founded the Out Campaign in 2007 to encourage atheists worldwide to declare their stance publicly and proudly. Dawkins hopes that the more atheists identify themselves, the more the public will become aware of just how many people actually hold these views, thereby reducing the negative opinion of atheism among the religious majority Richard Dawkins urges all atheists to openly state their position -- and to fight the incursion of the church into politics and science. The clip in this link is a talk by Dawkins done in the USA 2002 and before his book The God Delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 This may explain why I use the term militant= http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Militant+Atheist Very good link... Militant Atheist According to paranoid Christians with a persecution complex, anyone who is openly an atheist and has the gall to express a desire for the same rights and privileges as any other group. Atheist: I think that we atheists deserve the same rights and freedom of expression as any other group. Christian: You're such a Militant Atheist. and... Militant Atheist Christians kill abortion doctors and reject condom use, encouraging the spread of AIDS. Muslims fly planes into buildings. Atheists write books and ask for evidence. Who's militant again? Joe BibleThumper: "Those militant atheists are out of control. now they say that teaching science from our ancient book of magic contradictions is somehow bad for our intelligence." and most importantly... Militant Atheist Often misunderstood, you will find that an Atheist is merely someone who does not believe in the existence of a deity or deities. The exact opposite of a theist. Atheists can not be defined by any other terms. They do not follow any belief system or dogma. However, as in most cases in humans, people harboring similar ideas will share certain characteristics. Atheists typically abandon all things supernatural and rely on reason, rationality, evidence, and science as opposed to blind faith. Militant Atheism is very much an oxymoron. For it is not used to define Atheists who take up arms to fight or kill believers in theism, but is actually used to define people who actively speak up about their ideas. In any other realm of discourse, it would be said that these people have a very strong opinion. But because it is not socially acceptable to criticize religion or religious beliefs, theists automatically turn on the defensive. At this point they find the need to label or demonize the opposition. Whereas a fundamentalist or member of militant Islam would strike against the opposition with violence and tyranny, a "militant atheist" will fight the opposition with words and ideas. I pretty much agree ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Yes, it's in the urban dictionary because militant Muslims like yourself have repeated it often enough. It's still meaningless to anybody that is not intolerant of atheists. See what I did there? My Bold= You called me directly a militant when I just mentioned that some atheist are militant but not all. I have explained how I define a militant atheist, can you explain to me how you define a militant muslim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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