Chris_Sleeps Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 He sounds intollerant and ignorant to me. I'm sure he'd say the same of you. When the context is understood the meaning is pretty straightforward, and Islam has a rich tradition of teaching the Quran in context I'm sorry, but I still don't believe you. I've not studied it to any great depth, but it'll be like all holy books. There will be the good bits about tolerance and love, and there will be bad bits about chopping off the fingers of non-believers; and some people will teach that being kind is the real Islam, and some people will teach that killing is the real Islam. Just like the other Abrahamic religions. It's man made, and it is sloppy and messy. There's no "correct" Islam that fundamentalists ignore. The other side of the that is that not all Muslims want to chop my fingers off - they've learnt to ignore or adapt the bad bits. To go from what I've learnt from 'Why I'm Not A Muslim' - we can't even trust the translations. There was no uniform script for arabic when it was first formulated. There are numerous versions of the Quran; so to say that it's "pretty straightforward" is something I can't swallow. There are some parts of the Quran that can't be understood in the context of itself Sounds like the perfect work of Allah to me. I'll agree with you in part though. Islam is a political religion, and has been since Muhammed died. It's been twisted for various purposes, and I don't believe that all Muslims are evil and all mosques should be shot. I'm sub-titling my view "how to question Islam and try my best not to fuel the bigots". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamrocker Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 What was the age of consent in other countries around that time? Do you think it was 16 in the UK like it is now? I know where you are heading with this line of questioning, give it up as it has been done to death on here many times. A child is a child immaterial of what the law says is the age of consent but thats bye the bye ,you say you know where Im heading ,by your first statement it seems not Im at this moment not really interested in who was how old Im more interested in statements which seem to vary from time to time to suit, Matthew ,Mark,Luke and John all disciples of a prophet/son of god whichever you believe wrote about the life of their prophet/leader all 4 gospels seem to have a common foundation ,what I am being led to believe is this is not the case in Islam writing and its followers should only believe what is appropriate at the time that seems a trifle erroneous and unreliable wouldnt you say in said cases just who or what is to be believed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMoran Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm sure he'd say the same of you. Then hed be wronjg which makes my description of him more accurate than i first thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm sorry, but I still don't believe you. I've not studied it to any great depth, but it'll be like all holy books. There will be the good bits about tolerance and love, and there will be bad bits about chopping off the fingers of non-believers; and some people will teach that being kind is the real Islam, and some people will teach that killing is the real Islam. Just like the other Abrahamic religions. It's man made, and it is sloppy and messy. There's no "correct" Islam that fundamentalists ignore. The other side of the that is that not all Muslims want to chop my fingers off - they've learnt to ignore or adapt the bad bits. To go from what I've learnt from 'Why I'm Not A Muslim' - we can't even trust the translations. There was no uniform script for arabic when it was first formulated. There are numerous versions of the Quran; so to say that it's "pretty straightforward" is something I can't swallow.[/Quote] I was trying to split your above quote up but I think I would be better served treating it all together. The first point I'll make is that you are quite correct, there was no uniform Arabic script. According to the more scholarly Islamic sources the original 'revelations' were written down on a mixture of bark, papyrus and even animal bones. There were several 'versions' of the Quran while it was being amalgamated, and that amalgamation unified (and even developed) the written Arabic language, the purpose being to preserve the text so there were no ambiguities within it. As far as I know there are now two 'active versions' of the Quran in circulation, (this is from memory so I am willing to be corrected on this point) but one is hardly used by anyone apart from a small number of people in sub saharan Africa. It is this very amalgamation process (which took around two hundred years until the 'final' version(s) appeared) that gave the 'standard' meaning to the text, the process of verification having grown alongside the Quran itself. Even a basic reading of the Quran without any background knowledge gives a basic impression of its meaning. It essentially says that you should worship Allah and there are no Gods other than him, with some retelling of some Biblical stories from the Islamic perspective, and some events from Mohammads time thrown in. Sounds like the perfect work of Allah to me. I'll agree with you in part though. Islam is a political religion, and has been since Muhammed died. It's been twisted for various purposes, and I don't believe that all Muslims are evil and all mosques should be shot. I'm sub-titling my view "how to question Islam and try my best not to fuel the bigots". I too question Islam, in fact one of the things I don't understand about people who are actively against it is why they make stuff up (or listen to stuff that's made up) when there is enough in it already to genuinly question. For every defence of Islam on this forum I've had two debates with Muslims about why I don't believe their viewpoint. I respect Islam, I think it's vastly misrepresented in the media, but, as I have said a million times, I am not a Muslim, and the reason I'm not is because the evidence, for me, simply doesn't stack up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Hello PT, how are you? I would like to know if your interested of carrying the debate on, if you are interested to continue then we can discuss mohammad more indetail You can start at when mohammad realised he was a prophet at the age of 40 if you want.. Thank you Ps. And I would also like to discuss the Tahrif as well please if you know anything about it, thank you Edited October 9, 2012 by Drone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hello PT, how are you? I would like to know if your interested of carrying the debate on, if you are interested to continue then we can discuss mohammad more indetail You can start at when mohammad realised he was a prophet at the age of 40 if you want.. Thank you Ps. And I would also like to discuss the Tahrif as well please if you know anything about it, thank you Get a room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Get a room. I will if its got a steel door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 If you want the lesser evil, it is Islam in my opinion but they seem to be hacked off with the jews, im not surprised though, they are controlling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Islam are also blaming christians for altering the Koran but what they don't realise is we were just trying to get away from the jews too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The catholic church aren't innocent though because they have corrupted christianity and were also involved with the slaughter of nine million jews and more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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