Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Anyway ya ever noticed that all these muslim leaders justify suicide bombings but never actually do it themselves? Or is it just me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It just gets dumber this country Apparently now kids over 16 should only watch 2 hours of tv a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think I just may as well follow budda SIGN ME UP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Eastern religions, and especially polytheistic religions, tend to be a lot looser in their scripture. They take it from different sources and different teachers, and not one "solid book provided to us by God". In religious terms it's not hard to argue that polytheism is much more tolerant. As for Buddhism, that's seperate, and my knowledge is much smaller than yours. [/Quote] How is Buddhism seperate? This is a genuine question because I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. At first I read it as being seperate because it has no creator God, but then neither does Taoism, then I read it as being seperate because it comes from one source, one teacher whereas the other Eastern religions don't, but I'm not sure, could you clarify please? At the end of the day it is a religion that makes assertions and offers a certain practice in order to recieve a certain result, I'm not sure in 'essence', any religion is different from that respect. There are all sorts of contradictions. There is a ruling that if a sura was written earlier and has been contradicted, it can be ignored for the later statement. Yet the Quran is not organised in a chronological order, so it takes understanding to work out which bit is considered "true" and which bit should be ignored.[/Quote] It isn't, it's like Buddhism in that respect, the teachings aren't linear and straightforward, that's one of the reasons why there is such a strict way to understand it, and why it is so clear to understand once you've accepted that system. The other side of this, which I keep stressing, is that once you do have that understanding it is easy to see where people who don't simply add/subtract bits to suit themselves. It is the only religion that has a unified system, down to the written language itself, in order to avoid misunderstanding, and it is only when this system is ignored that misunderstanding does occur. The verse I found which stood out in my notes was that 24:2 appears to abrigate 4:15, but in these verses no secret is made that one over rules the other, I don't see how it is a contradiction when Islam is open about such things - should they pretend that it is'nt an overruling then a contaradiction would occur.. Still we're told it's the perfect work of God.[/Quote] And this for me is where the whole system falls down, because it can't be the perfect word of God and time specific at once, even with the above mentioned system of understanding in that respect it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Then we have to understand that Muhammed had access to the two other holy books, and openly copied from them. If the Bible is full of contradictions I see no reason why the Quran suddenly starts to form itself into something sensible in 700AD, in a language that wasn't uniform and took another 200 years to form, mixed with the political implications of their empire. I'm not suggesting it did form itself into something 'sensible', all I'm saying is that according to Muslims it is the word of God, and even to casual observers like myself it does stand up to alot of criticism levelled at it (like the contradictions), but this is because of the fact that it was compiled over such a long period and so strictly - and for a religious work it is relatively small - that's not me saying it's perfect - it's me saying it is a well put together piece of engineered literature. Regarding Mohammad having access to the two other holy books, it is my belief - and it is merely belief, I have no evidence to support this - that Mohammad came into contact with many Jews, and especially Christians, during his early life as a caravan trader, and he not only learnt about their religions from them but was also impressed enough by them (either aspects of the religions or the influence the individual had on him - or both) that he placed that influence into his own spiritual concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Game over then I keep telling you I'm not playing a game. There isn't a case for a winner and a loser, just mutual enquiry. I think I just may as well follow budda SIGN ME UP!![/Quote] There is nothing to sign up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Your not playing a game because it doesn't work I would take a look at a tribe I been studying It's based in Africa, seems convincing actually I'll pm you the company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 How is Buddhism seperate? I'll retract that and leave it. It's off-topic and I don't have the knowledge. It isn't, it's like Buddhism in that respect, the teachings aren't linear and straightforward, that's one of the reasons why there is such a strict way to understand it, and why it is so clear to understand once you've accepted that system. I don't accept that point. The system that extremists use to justify their actions is equally as valid as a system that moderates use to justify ignoring the killing and war. You're seperating islam into a "sensible system that I agree with", and a "ignoring this sensible system" duality. The perfect word of God wouldn't need to be analysed and worked out and understood, or sorted. It'd be perfect. If it's not perfect then why is one system better than another? It can't be. It's just people trying to move around the parts they like and the parts they don't like. I'll use slavery as a classic example, because the Quran argues for it and teaches how to treat slaves and how to punish them. You think you'll find many moderate Muslims in this country who think it'd be okay to take me as a slave? No. They'll ignore that bit. Yet 300+ years ago the Islamic Empire ran and organised their own slave trade, based on those very teachings. I'm not suggesting it did form itself into something 'sensible', all I'm saying is that according to Muslims it is the word of God, and even to casual observers like myself it does stand up to alot of criticism levelled at it I disagree. To start with, it is not the perfect word of God. That's fallen down already. Secondly, it calls for some awful acts to be done. Regarding Mohammad having access to the two other holy books, it is my belief - and it is merely belief, I have no evidence to support this - that Mohammad came into contact with many Jews, and especially Christians, during his early life as a caravan trader Undoubtedly. One of his wives was a Christian too, if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 One of his wifes was not a christian..ya don't believe that do ya? Their just tying to promote equality rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'll retract that and leave it. It's off-topic and I don't have the knowledge.[/Quote] Ok, I wasn't suggesting you were being offensive, I just genuinly didn't know what you were getting at I don't accept that point. The system that extremists use to justify their actions is equally as valid as a system that moderates use to justify ignoring the killing and war.[/Quote] But the system that extremists use can't be shown to come from the Quran unless they add embellishment, the system 'moderates' adhere to can. It's not just a case of interpreting differently, it's a case of adding to/subtracting from it to fit into your own world view. You're seperating islam into a "sensible system that I agree with", and a "ignoring this sensible system" duality. The perfect word of God wouldn't need to be analysed and worked out and understood, or sorted. It'd be perfect. If it's not perfect then why is one system better than another? It can't be. It's just people trying to move around the parts they like and the parts they don't like.[/Quote] I entirely agree, but i have never claimed it is the perfect word of God. Again I disagree with the last sentance though, it's people adding to the Quran to justify there own philosophical view. I'll use slavery as a classic example, because the Quran argues for it and teaches how to treat slaves and how to punish them. You think you'll find many moderate Muslims in this country who think it'd be okay to take me as a slave? No. They'll ignore that bit. Yet 300+ years ago the Islamic Empire ran and organised their own slave trade, based on those very teachings.[/Quote] Again I agree, but I don't have to reconconcile it as my belief, the excuse given is that it was time specific, the Quran doesn't say otherwise - all this demonstrates is that it isn't the infallable word of God - on which we both agree I disagree. To start with, it is not the perfect word of God. That's fallen down already. Secondly, it calls for some awful acts to be done[/Quote] I'm unsure what your disagreeing with here, I said it stands up to some of the criticisms levelled against it, not that I agree with everything in it. Undoubtedly. One of his wives was a Christian too, if I remember correctly. I think of all that can be said about Mohammad as a person we can be reasonable sure he had a healthy respect for Christianity, it's a petty many modern day extremists don't share that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Muslims are being trolled in my opinion Extremists even more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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