Chris_Sleeps Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I wouldn't say it's difficult Explain it to me then. How do I know which bit of the Quran is telling me the truth or not? If you really wanted to understand fully the only way to go would be to study Arabic to get the full meaning - personally I haven't gone that far, I suppose if I were a believer i would. I can safely say that if after nearly 1,300 years, and Muslims are still killing each other on a regular basis - then I don't think learning arabic is the key to working this out. I don't know, that's the easiest answer Is that not part of "the system"? Ah, tired of this. It's all bull crap. There is no system. Just an old book and people killing over it. Like religions the world over, since time began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 But there are hundreds of millions of peaceful and extremists muslims being deceived And for American government, well their disgusting and I hope britain exposes them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Explain it to me then. How do I know which bit of the Quran is telling me the truth or not?[/Quote] That's not for me to say, as I've already tried stating, it telling you the truth and understanding what it says are two different things. If you can't see it's meaning without having it proven to you as the truth then the system itself is completely irrelevant. The meaning pretty easy to understand, my only argument is with those who attribute things to it that clearly aren't present. You may have noticed on here when I have challenged people for attributing things to it I ask them to show me where it says such and such in the Quran - does it not strike as odd that they never anwer? That is all I'm interested in, I am not, nor ever have tried argue it is the 'truth'. I can safely say that if after nearly 1,300 years, and Muslims are still killing each other on a regular basis - then I don't think learning arabic is the key to working this out[/Quote] Muslims and adherants of every other system, Muslims and those who belong to no system whatsoever - that is human nature, it would be interesting (although totally impossible I would guess) to take the % of each religious group compared to humanity as a whole and see if being religious on the whole, or part of a specific religious group made you more or less prone to violent behaviour/anger. Is that not part of "the system"?[/Quote] No. The Islamic system of authentication merely states what's part of the Quran, it doesn't go into detail about every detail. This is one of the difficulties I have with it as I have been told by Muslims that it is a book for all people for all time, as I've already stated the idea of it being time specific in part and eternal in part doesn't add up. Ah, tired of this. It's all bull crap. There is no system. Just an old book and people killing over it. Like religions the world over, since time began. You've been making reference to the system involved youreslf (regarding the language changing etc). it's not a 'system' in the sense of a textbook with point a, point b, etc, it's the system that grew up alongside the formulation of the Quran, and details what is authentic within it. As I keep repeating, it's pretty simple to see those people who 'add' to the book or change it to suit there own agendas, but you need to get out of the view that saying you can authenticate things that people do as Islamic or not by using the Quran as a reference is the same as saying the Quran is the truth - I'm not saying that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 pre puberty or post puberty? This child was pre puberty, by the standards of the day in that part of the world she was to young. (6 to 9) years old. Hence to justify the act, it was claimed god said it was ok. Such a relationship, even in context of the year and location, to my and many others minds destroys the credibility of the man. However I am open to debate on the issue. Discussing this one aspect of his actions should not be taboo, or run the risks of violence. As it does I am not surprised that frustrated people resort to cartoons. now, you know you are talking absolute cobblers. You KNOW that, historically, marriages were often set up, worldwide with youngsters. Evidence has been provided to show that it was very common. If Aisha was as young as alleged, when she married Mohammed, (which I don't actually believe she was) where was the outcry at the time? Considering there was supposed to be a lot to criticise Mohammed about, don't you think it odd that this was one thing that he wasn't criticised for? (and where was the outcry when other marriages happened, in history, eg when people like King John were marrying so-called "child-brides?") I'll tell you... a) because at that time it was not considered wrong, it was the practice. (Just like at that time it was common to keep slaves) and b) a person was considered an adult once they had reached puberty, (consider the Jewish Bar-mitzvah ceremony, that pubertal Jewish lads take part in. 11, 12 and up. what happens? They recite a piece of the Scriptures, and they are then considered "men":- fully adult, fully able to take their part as a member of the Jewish community.. It was canon that even Maryam (Mary) mother of Isa (Jesus) was only 12 or 13 when she was Pregnant with Isa. More to the point, she was already betrothed to Joseph, so she was even younger than that at the time of her betrothal to him.... Why aren't you showing the same faux outrage at that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drone Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 There just stories in people's life's, but I haven't found any evidence Mary and Joseph existed, maybe they were yeshua's parents, maybe not, I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickisteel Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 simple get rid of christianity then it cant be viewed by the muslims as a holy war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 And richard You can't just believe bits of qur'aan and say you don't believe others You either believe it all or not at all Who says? Aren't there Jews who pick and choose the scriptures from the Torah they follow? Aren't there Christians who, ditto, with regard to the Bible? Just so with the Qur'an How many Catholics do we know, who practice birth control, contrary to the Vatican's teaching against contraceptives? How many Church-going Christians having pre- and extra-marital sex? Christians (even Christian church leaders) who are gay, contrary to the Church's teachings against being gay? (not that it actually concerns me about who is "zooming" who, it's none of my business.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANGELFIRE1 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 now, you know you are talking absolute cobblers. You KNOW that, historically, marriages were often set up, worldwide with youngsters. Evidence has been provided to show that it was very common. If Aisha was as young as alleged, when she married Mohammed, (which I don't actually believe she was) where was the outcry at the time? Considering there was supposed to be a lot to criticise Mohammed about, don't you think it odd that this was one thing that he wasn't criticised for? (and where was the outcry when other marriages happened, in history, eg when people like King John were marrying so-called "child-brides?") I'll tell you... a) because at that time it was not considered wrong, it was the practice. (Just like at that time it was common to keep slaves) and b) a person was considered an adult once they had reached puberty, (consider the Jewish Bar-mitzvah ceremony, that pubertal Jewish lads take part in. 11, 12 and up. what happens? They recite a piece of the Scriptures, and they are then considered "men":- fully adult, fully able to take their part as a member of the Jewish community.. It was canon that even Maryam (Mary) mother of Isa (Jesus) was only 12 or 13 when she was Pregnant with Isa. More to the point, she was already betrothed to Joseph, so she was even younger than that at the time of her betrothal to him.... Why aren't you showing the same faux outrage at that? Isn't the written word of religion just fairy stories anyway. Angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Of course its irrelevant,at least as far as my point is concerned' as I said a child is a child Im not excusing what happened to children in this country in the past but I think you will find that the lower age of 8 or 9 was still a no no as far as sexual activity was concerned.As I said in my previous post my concern about the age is not my main view here im waiting for your reply and links what I asked for so I can address the "choice" of scriptures seemingly to suit it was a no-no, was it? Is that how so many kids managed to get sold by their parents into sexual slavery? In the UK, the age of consent was 12, until about 1875. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickisteel Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yes.......ANGEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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