Arthur Scargill takes NUM to court again.

[robcalder]

The term union barons is quite dated now and makes your ideas appear anachronistic.I seem to recall these terms being used by the discredited press ie The Sun,Daily Mail etc.They are very sloppy terms employed by journalists devoid of any objectivity with little reference to facts.

 

I think the current leaders of the Trade Unions are just as "Baronial" as there forebears. Certainly they claim just as much (pro rata) in expenses. Fly around the world to liaise with thier fraternal brothers at members expense etc. If Jones, Scanlon, McGahey, etc were "Barons" what is different about the current crop of enemies of the state?

[Anna Glypta]

Your sarcasm over rides the quality of your arguement. The content of my post is substantive and stands. Clearly Scargill ws never a soldier, neither was Castro other than as a terrorist. Scargill was an excellent Compensation Agent. When he became leader of the NUM his ego took over, his "ideas" of overthrowing the elected government and installing a Soviet style administration were ludicrous and bound to fail, they do not bear critiscism as they are the workings of mind as twisted as any meglomaniac you care to mention.

 

I hope you enjoyed the teatime edition. Also that you dont get too dispeptic, all that bile is not good for you.

 

Was Scargill the fool or were they fools that elected him as their leader. No one ever got to vote on whether they had Castro in chage but that wasn't true of the NUM.

So the footsoldiers must have been aware of what they might expect when they voted for Arthur, and the price they might have to pay.

He brought down the NUM and the bills still keep coming.

[robcalder]

Was Scargill the fool or were they fools that elected him as their leader. No one ever got to vote on whether they had Castro in chage but that wasn't true of the NUM.

So the footsoldiers must have been aware of what they might expect when they voted for Arthur, and the price they might have to pay.

He brought down the NUM and the bills still keep coming.

 

I would never call them fools, they were loyal men. Under our feet in South Yorkshire are the bodies of hundreds if not thousands of men, women and (god forgive us) children who died digging out the coal that powered the ships that made the Empire. They also made some people very rich.

 

It was the NUM that fought for and won many of the improved working conditions and decent wages. Scargill himself was a brilliant Compensation Agent winning awards for crippled miners that ensured they could live reasonably comfortably.

 

There was no wonder that Scargill won the loyalty of these men when he stood for high office within the union, he was a great orator, had wonderful communication skills. Unfortunately he became to believe his own rhetoric.

 

His ambition knew no bounds, his actions in taking on Thatcher were suicidal. The result has been tragic, for him, for the NUM, the mining industry and this area.

[gnvqsos]

Your sarcasm over rides the quality of your arguement. The content of my post is substantive and stands. Clearly Scargill ws never a soldier, neither was Castro other than as a terrorist. Scargill was an excellent Compensation Agent. When he became leader of the NUM his ego took over, his "ideas" of overthrowing the elected government and installing a Soviet style administration were ludicrous and bound to fail, they do not bear critiscism as they are the workings of mind as twisted as any meglomaniac you care to mention.

 

I hope you enjoyed the teatime edition. Also that you dont get too dispeptic, all that bile is not good for you.

 

Ha ha ha-what about the Stalinist argument you have dodged?

[gnvqsos]

I think the current leaders of the Trade Unions are just as "Baronial" as there forebears. Certainly they claim just as much (pro rata) in expenses. Fly around the world to liaise with thier fraternal brothers at members expense etc. If Jones, Scanlon, McGahey, etc were "Barons" what is different about the current crop of enemies of the state?

 

Enemies of the state are usually secretive and discrete,or are a fiction used by some jourrnalists either too lazy or too stupid to research their arguments.Its all old hat now as the Tory govt seem bent on destruction.

[robcalder]

Ha ha ha-what about the Stalinist argument you have dodged?

 

I always feel that when a response starts with HA HA HA it says more about the person posing rather than the content. I dodge no arguement if I know what the arguement is about. What is your point?

[robcalder]

Enemies of the state are usually secretive and discrete,or are a fiction used by some jourrnalists either too lazy or too stupid to research their arguments.Its all old hat now as the Tory govt seem bent on destruction.

 

Really? In my experience enemies of the state such as the persons mentioned were in fact quite overt in their activities. Despite being paid by foreign countries Scanlon, Jones, Scargill and co were very high profile, Or were you not around at the time?

[gnvqsos]

I always feel that when a response starts with HA HA HA it says more about the person posing rather than the content. I dodge no arguement if I know what the arguement is about. What is your point?

 

Its a shame you cannot spell argument,and moreover whatever you feel about HA HA HA it reveals that I find your assertions ridiculous.

[gnvqsos]

Really? In my experience enemies of the state such as the persons mentioned were in fact quite overt in their activities. Despite being paid by foreign countries Scanlon, Jones, Scargill and co were very high profile, Or were you not around at the time?

 

Are you claiming that 1970s union leaders were directly funded by foreign states?If they were enemies why have they never been tried for sedition?Please do not expect me to respond in future as I find your silly claims childish and unworthy of a response.

[1978]

Arthur genuinely believed he was defending all miners from Tory machinations, and he was, for a time. Unfortunately, for the country as well as the miners, his tactics were badly flawed when they needed to be totally focussed. Mrs T saw him coming and dug in like any general in battle. Like her or loathe her it was as clear as night follows day that she had to fight after Heath's enforced capitulations.

 

The piles of coal standing on the ground weren't an accident. Arthur managed to undermine his cause by alienating Nottinghamshire miners in a way that could have been avoided. If he'd not done that he might even have won.

 

He didn't, and even Thatcher can't have foreseen how quickly coal mining would have declined thereafter. She wasn't intending to destroy mining communities, but she was determined to destroy the power of unions to cripple the economy whenever they liked. Sadly for those in the mining areas Thatcher + Scargill were a disastrous combination.

 

Only 3,548 deep miners are now left in the whole country, and it seems only half now belong to the NUM. Only 6 deep mines remain. Even if every deep miner was an NUM member they'd be paying £10pa each just to pay for Arthur's flat - but he has a perfectly good home in South Yorkshire, probably better than most miners occupy. He has quite a good pension and benefits package without the flat.

 

Have a look at the most recent statistics to see how badly the UK coal industry is now doing; http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/meeting_energy/coal/industry/industry.aspx

 

Stubborness during the dispute might be forgiven when it was directed at defending his members, even though it may have been misdirected. Today he seems hell bent on destroying what's left of the NUM, leaving inadequate funds to pay the current operating costs. All to retain a flat he could easily do without. In its way that's as bad a treatment of the miners as was handed out by Thatcher.