Plain Talker Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 then I must live in poverty, as I've never had a holiday abroad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 There are many different measures of poverty. Two common ones are absolute and relative poverty. I would say there is another, 'enforced relative poverty' based upon many factors - one resulting from tax/benefit traps. That can lead to enforced absolute poverty. This poverty is determined by AGE, SEX, NATIONALITY, GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION, NO. OF CHILDREN, FORM OF TENURE, amongst other things. To be unable to eat is absoltue poverty, but to be unable to grow food takes the regressive VATable biscuit, especially when people are paid to own land. The same with housing. Until housing fit for humans is provided by the state - or a right to build your own, we will have enforced poverty, always relative and increasingly absolute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 How you going to feed and house yourself without being legally allowed to cultivate land and build your OWN dwelling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 According to the goverment if you can't afford a holiday abroad once a year you are living in poverty, surely the true meaning of poverty is when people can't afford clothes food and housing? Interestingly enough that's also the definition of a lot of people in this country. I was reading of a large scale study some years ago in which members of the public were asked something like what do you need to make life worth living. The answers were interesting as it included things like a holiday once a year, the means to socialise with friends on a night out, a good variety of fresh food and clothes for the children etc. The researchers then pooled information and found millions of people (it was equivalent to the government/official definition of poverty) lived without things what others thought made life bearable. Had members of the public being asked "what should poor people have to put up with", my impression is people would have being much harsher and not said things like a holiday and the means to socialise. I'm not certain about my circumstances as my wages are below the the official poverty line, but then I'm a single man without the responsibilities of children, and having children changes the equation altogether. I certainly don't feel poor, but then I know I've often gone without meals a few days before payday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 A few hours after I made the last post a Newsnight investigation showed how one aspect of poverty manifests itself in Britain today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01n7dcg/Newsnight_03_10_2012/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 How you going to feed and house yourself without being legally allowed to cultivate land and build your OWN dwelling? There's an interesting series called 'Welcome to India' on at the moment. They do just this. I watched the first episode earlier - it puts poverty into perspective. (though strictly speaking, some of the shacks weren't built within the law) A few hours after I made the last post a Newsnight investigation showed how one aspect of poverty manifests itself in Britain today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01n7dcg/Newsnight_03_10_2012/ The poverty discussion was also on tonight's programme (though I can't link it, as it's not available yet). I only managed to watch the first article as Kirsty Wark is the worst presenter on the programme. Her arguments look written for her, and she just bulldozes in with continuous ridiculous points. Anyway - If you saw it, I did wonder why instead of the panel trying to 'shut her up with political answers', that they or no one else questioned why the woman in the VT had not only just stopped paying her rent (the reason for her eviction), that she also didn't attend the meetings that the DWP arranged to discuss her rent arrears. Really, who is to blame when someone who stops paying their rent, and doesn't go to meetings designed to sort things out? How much does the benefit system need to do for people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I have been impoverished. Poverty is when your parents have to go without food to feed you. When I was a child, my mum and dad did just that occasionally. We were poor (but not malnourished.) We wore second-hand clothes (but they were quite adequate. We didn't have colour TV (or even a black & white TV) nor did we have an X-box, Play station, mobile phone (or landline) or any of the other crap which is now deemed to be 'absolutely necessary!') How on earth did we survive? - Actually, we survived quite well. My Dad's family were - at one time - quite wealthy. A war which involves bombing of houses tends to make builders quite poor. - >Especially if it kills the breadwinner and maims his son. Not a problem. I was brought up to understand that the world doesn't owe me a living, I am not entitled to anything. I wasn't brought up in Sheffield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Why should I go to work, to be worse off ? Whats the point? I feel the same way. Such a waste of time and energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I have been impoverished. Poverty is when your parents have to go without food to feed you. When I was a child, my mum and dad did just that occasionally. We were poor (but not malnourished.) We wore second-hand clothes (but they were quite adequate. We didn't have colour TV (or even a black & white TV) nor did we have an X-box, Play station, mobile phone (or landline) or any of the other crap which is now deemed to be 'absolutely necessary!') How on earth did we survive? - Actually, we survived quite well. My Dad's family were - at one time - quite wealthy. A war which involves bombing of houses tends to make builders quite poor. - >Especially if it kills the breadwinner and maims his son. Not a problem. I was brought up to understand that the world doesn't owe me a living, I am not entitled to anything. I wasn't brought up in Sheffield. As I said above I occasionally skip meals just before payday, but I don't have children thankfully. I work for a living, but I'm not paid very much (I'm not stating my earnings on the Forum). Do I survive, yes - just about. But like the people in the study I mentioned above, sometimes having going without things that others consider make life bareable doesn't make for a very happy life. I've never thought the world owes me a living, and that I'm entitled to to a holiday every year (every 5 years would be nice) or a change of decent pair of shoes....I guess when your surrounded by messages about the latest must haves and people in nice clothes it does get galling. You can try to rationalise it, but that doesn;t alter how I feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrod Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 How you going to feed and house yourself without being legally allowed to cultivate land and build your OWN dwelling?We're all legally allowed to cultivate land and build our own dwelling. All we have to do is buy the land, plant the seeds, and apply for the planning permission. So where's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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