Definition of poverty?

[Heyesey]

I dont understand this thread. I earn well under 16500 and I live a life of reckless abandon and luxurious fripperies?

 

That's rather the point. Labour's definition of "poverty" is "some people earn a lot more than you." It's the good old, long-since-discredited politics of envy, but slightly disguised so that people don't realise that quite so easily.

 

In fact, if you look at the population of Mayfair in isolation, you'll find that about a third of the people who live in Mayfair are below the poverty line. If that doesn't show how stupid a calculation it is, I don't know what will.

[Twiglet]

2 seperate tax years;)

 

If you read it again he was calculating the tax on £9000 in one year

 

so on £9000:

 

£5250 is taxed at 0% (£0)

£2250 is taxed at 10% (£225)

£1500 is taxed at 22% (£330)

 

for a total of £580 tax. Once the rates are adjusted, it will be roughly

 

£5500 taxed at 0% (£0)

£4500 taxed at 20% (£900)

 

for a total of £900 tax - so there will be a loss of £320, not £500

[fox20thc]

Sorry to seem thick.

 

But is a single man/woman with no kids entitled to working tax credits? if they have a mortgage etc rather than living in rented homes

 

Anyone is entitled to apply for working tax credits if they are on a low wage, single, married, kids or no kids.

 

There is a tax credit for workers and a tax credit for those with children which anyone regardless of income can apply for.

[Alex C.]

If you read it again he was calculating the tax on £9000 in one year

 

and doing it wrong

[Cyclone]

Anyone is entitled to apply for working tax credits if they are on a low wage, single, married, kids or no kids.

 

There is a tax credit for workers and a tax credit for those with children which anyone regardless of income can apply for.

 

Working Tax Credit is for people who are employed or self-employed (either on their own or in a partnership), who

 

* usually work 16 hours or more a week

* are paid for that work, and

* expect to work for at least 4 weeks

 

and who are

 

* aged 16 or over and responsible for at least one child, or

* aged 16 or over and disabled, or

* aged 25 or over and usually work at least 30 hours a week

[Ms Macbeth]

The figures were nearly correct.

 

The current tax allowance is roughly 5225. 10% is then paid on the first 2250 above that, and 22% on the remainder (we're not looking at people who reach the 40% bracket here).

So 07/08 tax for an income of 9k would be £560.5

 

In 08/09 the allowance will be higher 5435, but the 10% band will disappear.

So on 9k tax will be, £713. An increase of £152.5

Overall burden has increased by 1.7% on this wage.

 

Of course anyone who is working full time even on minimum wage earns more than this.

 

Following Cyclone's excellent example, a bit more info from: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/money/tax/article1559130.ece

 

'if you earn less than £18,500, it may cost you money. The reason for this is that the Chancellor’s decision to scrap the 10 per cent tax rate will cost most taxpayers roughly £220'.

 

'If you are a woman aged 60 to 64 and paying tax, you will lose out in this Budget. This is because you will not be receiving help from tax credits or from the changes to the personal allowances for pensioners. '

 

Low level taxpayers over 65 (basically anyone who has slightly more than a state pension) will benefit, as will the lower paid with children.

 

But the biggest winners are the higher paid. Sounds like the kind of tax 'cut' the Tories would introduce.

[Funky_Gibbon]

Thats what working tax credit and child tax credits are there for.

 

Unfortunately not everyone can get them. I'm a single man with no children and don't have any plans to change that any time soon. Unless I'd wanted to spend the rest of my life living with my parents (oh the horror!) I need to earn a wage of around £17,000 because I do not qualify for any credit schemes.

 

The only thing I know of that I qualify for is a 25% reduction in council tax which helps a little but I'm still struggling to keep my outgoings less than my income. If I actually had a social life I'd have no chance.

[SimpyTimpy]

It said on the news yesterday that the poverty line is £16,500-, according to my calculations youd have to be earning about £317 a week to live above that, saying that's an 8 hour day, youd have to be earning atleast £7 an hour if you were on a 6 day week or over £6.50 if 5 days, so the minimum wage really dosent help, if you were working the maximum 48 hours on the minimum £5.52 you'd be living below the poverty line on about 260 a week, such inconsistancy allows people to be very poor, the minimum wage should be well over £6 in my opinion, what do you think?

 

Is that not before tax? Which would mean it's about £1100 a month, etc, on £8ish an hour in a 35 hour week.

[Mathom]

That's rather the point. Labour's definition of "poverty" is "some people earn a lot more than you." It's the good old, long-since-discredited politics of envy, but slightly disguised so that people don't realise that quite so easily.

 

In fact, if you look at the population of Mayfair in isolation, you'll find that about a third of the people who live in Mayfair are below the poverty line. If that doesn't show how stupid a calculation it is, I don't know what will.

 

That's because it's all relative. £16,500 when you have a family and a home to pay for and maintain is a struggle; when you live in a council property it's a bit better; when you are single and have no housing costs it's party time.

[Glennis]

It galls me to here figures claiming so-called poverty line figures which are clearly enough for somebody to exist on.

 

Fine, if they want holidays, cars, TVs, DVD players, sky TV, mobile phones and Nike trainers for the kids, they’ll struggle.

 

But, if they are sensible, willing to buy cheap clothes from charity shops, and live within their means, anybody with a roof over their head, heat and food is not living in poverty.

 

It’s just more ‘poor me I don’t have everything’, which perpetuates the sodding welfare state.

 

Real poverty exists in abundance overseas – the less well off over here just moan because others have more and they want everything for nothing.

 

Poverty in the UK, is usually known as relative poverty, where a household cannot afford certain consummer goods, that society in general takes for granted.

 

Poverty in the Third World is absolute, where people have nothing and can suffer malnourishment and even death.