L00b Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 but what if, at the point you breed them you can feed them and then a few years later you lose your job or your hours get cut and can no longer feed them?I referred to that very situation in my first post. At the end of the day, there would have to be a cut-off date (i.e. "before" and "after" such a new policy takes effect), and it would be up to would-be parents to take that into account in their 'family plan'. The same as it is for anybody partly on, or not on, benefits - see willman's earlier post (#18 ). Having kids is an important decision, and the 'test' is simple enough: how secure is your job, what is your financial situation and, if you were to you lose your job tomorrow, for a week or for a year, could you still afford to feed and shelter your dependants? Yes? No? Yes = fine, let's now factor an extra mouth to feed, and see what the maths look like. No = certainly cannot afford an extra mouth to feed. It's not rocket science (of course life is not black/white/that simple, but still that's the most basic way to appraise the question, even for the intellectually-challenged). 'Accidents' can and have always happened. Now, 3 or 4 accidents in a row...I'd never advocate culls or sterilisation, but a line has to be drawn somewhere and in clear enough terms, to 'help' those who can't help themselves. I was calling it social reverse-engineering (it still is), you can also call it re-responsibilising people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S10mainly Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Its quite interesting that, over time, things get turned on their heads.... Why do people "expect" the state to pay for them? Because people paid into the system through tax and NI, and were entitled to recieve something back when they needed it... We now seem to have a lot of people who think they "deserve" what the Welfare State offers...Hows that one work then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I don't buy into it - i'm intelligent enough to know that some people elect to be unemployed and have no ambition to work, they also know the state will support them procreating. Some of these people aren't in poverty - i probably have as little disposable income than they do but i don't have more kids 'cos i cant afford them based on my salary cap,the same should be true for the unemployed. Support is fair and just, endless top ups aren't imho. Some people might choose that life. A lot of them might not have much choice. The options aren't that great, for a lot of reasons. If you're on low wages and not happy then stop moaning get yourself better wages. After all that's the same kind of argument you're using against benefit claimants. Or don't you have good options in the current economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Its quite interesting that, over time, things get turned on their heads.... Why do people "expect" the state to pay for them? Because people paid into the system through tax and NI, and were entitled to recieve something back when they needed it... We now seem to have a lot of people who think they "deserve" what the Welfare State offers...Hows that one work then? Where, exactly, is the evidence for this claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Remember that for many people they have no option but to be on benefits, some long-term and some long-term. For the others I doubt it's the lifestyle that is attractive but more the lack of other rational options. It would be better if the chancellor had been pushing the idea of creating other options rather than using the language of the playground to demonise sections of society. This is why the system is being made more robust. The system was left unchecked by labour. 2 out of three people on sickness benefits are being judged as capable to work! There are many people who have no option and its societies responsibility to take care of those who otherwise could not care for themselves, but that does mean you need to throw money at everyone who claims it. We need checks and balances to make sure those who are capable to work do work and those who can demonstrate they cannot are cared for. Why do you think there are so many foreign workers in the UK? They come here to work and they do so for the same same wage as you or I. The minimum wage has put a rest to those who claim they work for less. There are companies who cannot get British people to work for them because they see it as beneath them, they have some idealogical idea that they deserve a better job than those available to them. This is the problem, we have bred a generation of work shy, ill educated, under qualified families that think they are entitled to either full state hand outs of a cushy office job. You use terms such as "I Doubt" which makes you sound like you dont know much about the subject. If you think that there is no such thing as a person or family on benefits that chooses to be there, I suggest you watch Ann Widdecombe versus the benefits culture and you will see perfectly fit and healthy people on sickness benefits or people refusing to work in certain jobs because they see it was below them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wednesday1 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Yes, the Coalition is literally slaughtering children. Under hyperbole in the dictionary it says "see Stoatwobbler". There's plenty of real things you could be criticizing The Boy David for. Or is research too much like hard work? Surely that would apply most to your hero, David Icke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Surely that would apply most to your hero, David Icke? What's your latest prediction Wednesday1? I need to know what to bet against *we can both make pointless posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 This is why the system is being made more robust. The system was left unchecked by labour. 2 out of three people on sickness benefits are being judged as capable to work! There are many people who have no option and its societies responsibility to take care of those who otherwise could not care for themselves, but that does mean you need to throw money at everyone who claims it. We need checks and balances to make sure those who are capable to work do work and those who can demonstrate they cannot are cared for. Why do you think there are so many foreign workers in the UK? They come here to work and they do so for the same same wage as you or I. The minimum wage has put a rest to those who claim they work for less. There are companies who cannot get British people to work for them because they see it as beneath them, they have some idealogical idea that they deserve a better job than those available to them. This is the problem, we have bred a generation of work shy, ill educated, under qualified families that think they are entitled to either full state hand outs of a cushy office job. By Atos . A system introduced and nurtured by Labour. Money was never just thrown at anybody who claimed it. DWP's own figures put fraud at 1%. Again, the last bit in italics, where is the evidence for your statement? You can't make it more true by turning it into a bigger rant. Note - The Jeremy Kyle Show is not evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 By Atos . A system introduced and nurtured by Labour. Money was never just thrown at anybody who claimed it. DWP's own figures put fraud at 1%. Again, the last bit in italics, where is the evidence for your statement? You can't make it more true by turning it into a bigger rant. Note - The Jeremy Kyle Show is not evidence 1% they catch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wednesday1 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 What's your latest prediction Wednesday1? I need to know what to bet against *we can both make pointless posts Tories to win a by a landslide in 2015! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.